Why do undead have poor Fort/good Will?

[marune]

Mace of Disruption uses a Will save (only DC 14) shouldn't that be more appropriate to use Fort instead ?

 

[KarinsDad]

Darn Skippy The disintigrate spell doesn't REALLY disintigrate anymore, so it might as well be useful at damaging undead.

Disintegrate is a good save or die type spell against Arcane spell casters.

It is also a very good follow up spell against any creature (i.e. once a creature is seriously damaged, Disintegrate can polish them off completely, even if they do have a good Fort save).

Quickened True Strike followed by Empowered Disintegrate is single shot deadly against Bards and Rogues as well.

The main advantage of Disintegrate is that there is no body or body parts to Raise Dead. The odd thing about Disintegrate is the trace of fine dust left behind that can be used with a Resurrection spell. But, as a Sadistic DM, I follow Disintegrate up with a Gust of Wind spell.

 

[marune]

Quickened True Strike followed by Empowered Disintegrate is single shot deadly against Bards and Rogues as well.

I don't know if I dare to use it, because my player's will know if after

 

[Grog]

It is also a very good follow up spell against any creature (i.e. once a creature is seriously damaged, Disintegrate can polish them off completely, even if they do have a good Fort save).

If 5d6 damage is going to polish someone off, you could probably pretty easily do that with a much lower level spell.

I'm not generally a fan of save or die effects, but I feel Disintegrate got nerfed too much in 3.5. 2d6 damage per level sounds like a lot, until you realize that at 11th level, that's only 77 points of damage on average. A 6th level spell that only does 77 damage to a single creature, and requires a ranged touch attack, and allows a Fort save (which I'd bet serious money is the highest average save in the Monster Manual).... Really not too effective, except in a handful of situations (like against an enemy wizard - or undead, which is why I don't have any problem with it working well against them).

 

[frankthedm]

Why, for goodness sake? 3.5 made disintegrate relatively ineffective against everything else already! Give the spell a bone

The spell got its "bone" by getting around "Death Ward", no longer dusting your victims toys[3.5E] and doing untyped damage[3.5E]. Now I would agree that high fort saves are far, far too common and unjustly gimp all fort save based spells.

 

[Warmage-in-Onley]

And Disintegrate is exceptional against objects/terrain/structures - you know, modifying your surroundings to help out in a jam.

 

[KarinsDad]

If 5d6 damage is going to polish someone off, you could probably pretty easily do that with a much lower level spell.

True. Even Magic Missile will do that. The main difference is that the opponent is dust as opposed to merely dead or unconscious (or even conscious with Die Hard). Dead NPCs (especially re-occurring villains) in my campaign come back on occasion. Disintegrated ones will almost never come back.

I'm not generally a fan of save or die effects, but I feel Disintegrate got nerfed too much in 3.5. 2d6 damage per level sounds like a lot, until you realize that at 11th level, that's only 77 points of damage on average. A 6th level spell that only does 77 damage to a single creature, and requires a ranged touch attack, and allows a Fort save (which I'd bet serious money is the highest average save in the Monster Manual).... Really not too effective, except in a handful of situations (like against an enemy wizard - or undead, which is why I don't have any problem with it working well against them).

The spell would have real punch and utility if it was half damage on the Fort save. The window for toasting damaged and currently low hit point opponents would be fairly large then.

 

[Nail]

Back (sorta) On topic:

If you'd like UD turning to rely on a save from the UD, why not make it Will? Resisting a turning attempt with a Will save makes intuitive sense.

 

[Nail]

BTW: In looking up the RAW in this question, I came to a startling revelation. Have you ever tried looking up the definitions of the Saving Throws? I had not....in 6 years of playing, I'd never done it.

Just for giggles: "What section of the SRD are the definitions in?" Extra points for giving the PH location as well.

 

[Nail]

Anyway...given the following definitions:

Will save: A type of saving throw, related to a character’s ability
to withstand damage thanks to his mental toughness.

Fortitude save: A type of saving throw, related to a character’s
ability to withstand damage thanks to his physical stamina.

I'd say it's pretty clear why UD have lousy Fort saves. What, pray tell, is a ghost's "physical stamina"?