Why do women send mixed signals?

[Hijinks]

I think the folks here who are getting angry are doing so more out of frustration than anything else; I know I am just frustrated that KenM seems to not be listening and keeps posting further inflammatory posts. He almost smells like a troll to me at this point; every time he posts he's attacking others for what they say.

I said I would try things that other people have metioned. But it does not happen overnight. But I still get attacked from you people.

But yet you say you still refuse to "conform," and you've made it obvious that you consider all of the advice you've gotten thusfar as "comforming." Doesn't sound to me like you plan to try the "things that other people have mentioned" at all.

 

[nerfherder]

He wasn't saying "I don't have enough friends" or "I wish I could socialize better" he said "Why do women not say what they mean straightfowardly?"

Yes, we know all that - it was answered for him multiple times on page one.

By the same token, why is it that everyone in the thread has so much a problem with his behaviour that they feel the need to point out the problems with it? Isn't it better to accept his way of life is different than yours and that he doesn't need to socialize in the same ways you do?

KenM said that he was happy with most aspects of his life, other than the lack of a partner. Various people then posted advice which would help him attract and keep a partner.

Isn't that better than to say "Sorry mate. Yes, I could help you, but no I'm not going to, because you've got to accept your current way of life"?

Cheers,
Liam

P.S. have you actually bothered to read any of this thread? Do you want to help KenM find his soul-mate (which is what this thread turned into part way through page 1), or are you just trolling?

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

Well once again Ken avoided answering the question I posted much earlier in this thread. Not sure if it is because he refuses to examine the hypothetical situation or because he is incabable of understanding it but I will stop trying to figure it out.

I am going to make what will probably be my last comment on this thread and bring it back a little bit to what started this whole thing; relationships.

At the wedding I was in this weekend, I was thinking of something to write in the guestbook and this is what I came up with for advice to the new bride and groom:

"A loving relationship is not about give and take. It is about give and receive ."

You can only take what has been freely given by your partner. If you demand more, you will never have a healthy relationship. By demanding that a woman be always truthful to you, Ken, you destroy the partnership of any possible relationship before it has even begun. Your only choices are to learn to accept what others can (and cannot) give, or to isolate yourself and learn to accept that instead.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

But realize it'll take some time for them to get used to who you actually are, rather than expecting them to intuit that off the bat.

Before that can happen though, hasn't this thread more than made clear that it's also going to take Ken some time to get used to who others are first... and he resents that no one is living up to his angelic standards. Probably even himself.

I mean you won't be sitting around in a nascent relationship waiting for someone else to get used to you if you are incapable of giving that other person even greater slack than you expect in return.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

But yet you say you still refuse to "conform," and you've made it obvious that you consider all of the advice you've gotten thusfar as "comforming." Doesn't sound to me like you plan to try the "things that other people have mentioned" at all.

Perhaps I can explain. Unlikely though, since the last time I tried, I got a barrage of people giving me the same lectures he is getting.

In the world I live in, which (as far as I can tell) is similar to Ken's, I have about 20 or so friends. I hang out with the same people every weekend, we do similar things every week and we enjoy our lives. We like our weekly role playing sessions, we like spending Saturday night playing computer games. We have a bunch of friends we trust completely because every time we've asked them to do something they've come through for us, they show up reliably to the things we invite them to, and they listen to us without making fun of us. So, because of that, we can tell them anything and we are happy with that.

We don't know very many women, however. The ones we know are married or dating someone we know. A couple of them are women who, at least somewhat, are people we would date if they were available. So, we know women like we are looking for are out there. We assume there must be more of them. So, we look for them. We just don't know where to look, since our "normal" life doesn't require us to hang out in the places people find women.

Not having a girlfriend isn't horrible. We don't spend every day of our life sulking. However, it would be nice. A lot like that house by the waterfront most people wish they had but can't afford. It would be nice, but it's not important enough to spend that much money on.

In a similar way, when people tell us the way to find women is to stop doing a large portion of what we like in our lives and to go against our principles (for instance, lying, drugs, smoking, cheating, etc) in order to get women and unless we change, we will never meet a woman and we will be lonely and die without any human contact at all.

And we don't believe them...because we see our friends who are just as socially inept as we are getting women. The women they get are ones we wouldn't mind dating, so we no our standards aren't unreasonably high. However, we are told by everyone here that what we know is wrong. That anyone who thinks like we do and refuses to change is bound to be a loser with no friends all their life.

Frankly, I was tired of people telling me my way of life was wrong when we had a thread about me that I stopped reading due to the amount of abuse (yes, it stopped being advice after the first person or two and just ended up being abuse) I was taking. I can't sit back and watch you guys do it to another person, however. You THINK you are helping, but you aren't.

I wish I could explain it in a way you'll understand. Each of you must have something you believe in, something important enough that you wouldn't sacrifce it for anything, maybe a wife, maybe it's a favorite hobby, maybe its religion, whatever. Now, imagine there was something you wanted, for instance: money, power, love, etc. That's easy, simply give up worshipping your relgion and you will get it, or divorce your wife and never talk to her again and you will get it, etc. Now, you'd probably be offended that someone would even suggest giving up a part of you that is so important. You'd flat out say "No way, it's not worth that much to me." Right, now imagine that instead of ONE person suggesting such an outrageous notion to you, that instead it was about 10. When you try to explain to them why you are looking for ANOTHER way to get what you want other than give up such an important thing in your life, you are told "you aren't even listening you us, we are just telling you the truth. If you don't give up what you hold dear, you will never get what you want."

I say, it's full of ****. There is always more than 1 way to get what you want. I also don't think your way is better than his like you make it sound.

 

[nerfherder]

Perhaps I can explain.

OK, thanks for the explanation. That answers some of my concerns about your motives.

I do disagree with you, though.

You say that having a girlfriend would be nice, not having one isn't horrible. From that, and the rest of your post, I'm guessing then that you don't have a girlfriend, or have had many, and you aren't really looking for one?

KenM has said that he has a personal ad up, and is actively looking to find a partner. He broke up with his previous girlfriend a couple of months back and is using a strategy (internet dating) that he finds works best for him. However, he's had a setback with the girl flaking on him.

I don't think the best advice for him is to just sit back in his comfort zone and wait for the rest of the world to adjust to his current way of thinking. He doesn't sound like he wants to be single for the rest of his life.

I'm hoping Ken goes away, thinks long about what he wants in life and how hard he's prepared to work for it and takes the first brave step to make it happen.

Cheers,
Liam

 

[Hijinks]

All I was saying, Majoru, was that KenM asked for advice, we gave it, then he said that if he took our advice he'd be "conforming," and he doesn't want to do that.

As I said, most of the posters here are just frustrated, not angry. As in my example a page or so back: if someone whines to you about an aspect of their life that they don't like, and you make common sense suggestions from your own experience, and the person continues to make excuses about why he can't follow your advice, and gets defensive and acts like you're attacking him, when all you're doing is trying to help him (because he came to you), then yes, you would get frustrated also.

KenM also made it plain that he expected a woman to agree to be with him, and in that agreement she was also agreeing to give up all of her friends, because he refuses to socialize with people he doesn't know (even if they are friends of the woman he's with). In my mind, that's an unrealistic expectation. 90% of the posts in this thread have been made by people who are trying to make him see that his expectations are unrealistic. Some posters have been more blunt than others. But, in my opinion, he seems to be fanning the flames himself every time he posts anew.

 

[reveal]

I also think people are frustrated but need to realize this about AS:

Persons with AS show marked deficiencies in social skills, have difficulties with transitions or changes and prefer sameness. They often have obsessive routines and may be preoccupied with a particular subject of interest.

IMHO, I don't think anyone here is going to change KenM's thinking on this topic. I'm not blaming his POV or any of his posts on AS, but it does explain a lot and is what made me stop posting any more advice because I figure it will go unheeded and just frustrate me.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Yes, we know all that - it was answered for him multiple times on page one.

The answer didn't satisfy me, I don't know why it would him. The answer was basically "just because that's the way it is. Everyone lies, get used to it, you are the ONLY one who thinks they way you do, and unless you start thinking like us, you are doomed."

Isn't that better than to say "Sorry mate. Yes, I could help you, but no I'm not going to, because you've got to accept your current way of life"?

Well, I would have prefered an answer that fits better into his life. Want one? Ok:

Not all women lie like that, just the majority of them. I've met ones who don't. There are a group of people (including women) who are like you. It may take a while to find someone because we ARE in the minority, but don't you think it would be worth it to wait for someone who has the same ideals as you than change who you are to please some woman who doesn't even fit your idea of a woman you like?

I suggest keeping your personal ads on as many sites as possible. I suggest asking all of your friends to keep an eye out for women who may be single. I suggest going to gaming conventions and getting involved in activities that you like, there may be women there.

P.S. have you actually bothered to read any of this thread? Do you want to help KenM find his soul-mate (which is what this thread turned into part way through page 1), or are you just trolling?

I'm not trolling, I've read most of the thread. I empathize with Ken and I know how I felt in a similar situation to him. What I'm trying to do is show that answers that may work for you won't work for him. Your lifestyle may not fit his life. And that there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

Each of you must have something you believe in, something important enough that you wouldn't sacrifce it for anything, maybe a wife, maybe it's a favorite hobby, maybe its religion, whatever. Now, imagine there was something you wanted, for instance: money, power, love, etc.

<snip>

I say, it's full of ****. There is always more than 1 way to get what you want. I also don't think your way is better than his like you make it sound.

...pulled back in...

1) I don't think anyone here is suggesting that Ken give up something that he would not sacrifice for anything. Ken has said he does not want to take medication for various reasons, most of which I can accept. I have not yet seen what he hold so dear that he is not willing to accept therapy (which I think may be more effective in the situation Ken is in) and he does not also seem to accept that not everything someone does (i.e not be completely honest with him) is a personal attack on him that deserves retaliation. If those are the things he is unwilling to sacrifice, then nobody here is probably able to help him.

2) If you don't want advice, or only want advice you'll like, don't go asking for it on a public forum.

3) There may very well be more than one way to get what you want, but how can "our" way be better than "his" way when he does not know what "his" way is, other than sitting around, waiting for God, or someone else to make things happen for him.

Again, he asked for advice, opinions etc. He has rejected much (if not all) people have given him, and made, what sounds to many of us, excuses. I guess we are just not such a shallow community here that we are willing to let people wallow in self-pity when we think we can help them. If Ken does not want our advice anymore, he can do as you did and give up on reading the postings. By his coming back again and again, we think there is a chance to reason with him, break through the barriers he has and convince him to take some kind, any kind, of action to fix what he sees as a problem. Of course the only one he can fix is himself, which is the main point I think we are all trying to get across. We cannot fix things for Ken, we can offer our advice as to what he can do to fix things himself. On the other side of the coin, Ken cannot "fix" everyone else. He cannot, by wishing it or demanding it, change the world or the people in it any more than they can do it to him.