Why do you play games other than D&D?

[Dannyalcatraz]

I suspect it is probably far less suitable for one where you tell the story of solving a mystery ala Brindlewood Bay.

I’d use the Dark HERO ruleset and GREATLY limit access to Powers- almost exclusively just for creating Items. Skills & Talents would be the bulk of PC options. Very low total point ceiling.

But that doesn’t necessarily make for a good investigative RPG campaign, unless your GM is really good at running that kind of game because HERO skill checks are more binary than with grades of success.

 

[SableWyvern]

I’d use the Dark HERO ruleset and GREATLY limit access to Powers- almost exclusively just for creating Items. Skills & Talents would be the bulk of PC options. Very low total point ceiling.

But that doesn’t necessarily make for a good investigative RPG campaign, unless your GM is really good at running that kind of game because HERO skill checks are more binary than with grades of success.

More importantly, you'd need to invent rules for determining if the characters' theories are correct or not, since there is no pre-existing truth in this style of play.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I’d use the Dark HERO ruleset and GREATLY limit access to Powers- almost exclusively just for creating Items. Skills & Talents would be the bulk of PC options. Very low total point ceiling.

But that doesn’t necessarily make for a good investigative RPG campaign, unless your GM is really good at running that kind of game because HERO skill checks are more binary than with grades of success.

What I'd phrase it as is Hero is no worse than most trad games for investigation--but that's very much damning with faint praise.

 

[Thomas Shey]

More importantly, you'd need to invent rules for determining if the characters' theories are correct or not, since there is no pre-existing truth in this style of play.

Is that specific to the approach Brindlewood Bay? I'm curious because it seems an odd statement for investigative games in-general.

 

[SableWyvern]

What I'd phrase it as is Hero is no worse than most trad games for investigation--but that's very much damning with faint praise.

It might be faint praise if you say it. It's sincere praise from me, as I prefer the traditional approach to investigation. I don't need or want fancy mechanics or approaches like you might find in Gumshoe (as an example).

 

[SableWyvern]

Is that specific to the approach Brindlewood Bay? I'm curious because it seems an odd statement for investigative games in-general.

Yes, and it's specifically why I chose it as a contrasting option and was quite specific in my language. As I understand it, it's not actually about solving a mystery - it's about what happens along the way. The truth isn't discovered through play, it's created.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

IOW, it’s not that HERO can’t do games in the investigative genre, but that its mechanics do not support particular playstyles.

It’s skill/talent/powers system is fine for uncovering a set hidden plot that the GM has created, but it doesn’t handle emergent plotlines well at all.

…at least, not just based on pure mechanics. For me, handling emergent plotlines is an acquired GMing skill.

My best ever stint as a GM was when I ran a supers HERO game set in a modified version of Space:1889’s campaign setting. While I did have a general story arc for the campaign as a whole, I definitely altered some aspects along the way to conform to the speculations & table talk of the players. In several cases, their musings led to better plots than I had originally concocted. And their belief that they’d “read my mind” instead of thinking I’d yoinked their ideas helped with player engagement.

Essentially, many hands making for light work.

 

[Thomas Shey]

It might be faint praise if you say it. It's sincere praise from me, as I prefer the traditional approach to investigation. I don't need or want fancy mechanics or approaches like you might find in Gumshoe (as an example).

I think there are real problems with binary yes-or-no creating dead ends in trad games. There are other solutions to that than the Gumshoe approach; I personally prefer the approach they did in Chill 3e where a skill roll always gets you some information, just of varied amounts (and mixed with misinformation on fumbles).

 

[SableWyvern]

I think there are real problems with binary yes-or-no creating dead ends in trad games.

That's a thing that can happen, but if I feel a dead end would be a problem then I simply won't gate critical information behind a roll that that can fail. That's perfectly easy to do with a traditional system.

"Don't ask for a roll if you're not prepared to deal with the consequences of failure," is pretty standard and accepted advice.

There are other solutions to that than the Gumshoe approach; I personally prefer the approach they did in Chill 3e where a skill roll always gets you some information, just of varied amounts (and mixed with misinformation on fumbles).

Well, that Chill option is easy enough to do with HERO as well, and is pretty much just a minor variant on "don't gate critical information".

 

[pemerton]

Over the years, our games have become so RP focused that the specific system we use has way less impact than it used to.

<snip>

Because the rolls and math are generally the least interesting part of our games, and I'm loose enough with the rules to make any system work with what the players want to do.

For me, "system" is not primarily about the dice used or the rolling method. Core to system is how the GM frames scenes/presents situations to the players and how the GM establishes consequences. This quickly extends into things like how stakes are established, what the role of PC build and GM prep are in these things, etc.