D&D 5E Why does 5E SUCK?

[vandaexpress]

Hate is a strong word, but yep, I've got some gripes about 5E...

• Stealth is confusing and depends on the DM's judgement to a greater degree than it should.

Exacerbating the situation here is how the rules that DO exist for stealth are scattered across so many different sections in the PHB!

Stealth is something I've been thinking a lot about lately, and I've found myself going back and forth on it. On the one hand, you have people arguing that stealth is such a fluid concept that no matter how well-codified the rules are, they never seem sufficient for every situation. I can see that being true, and its basically the position that the WotC sages have taken.

But I'm finding myself swinging back to my original perspective as well for one reason:

While yes it is true that DMs can implement their own house rules and should interpret specific scenarios according to their will, this makes it difficult, as a player, especially one who hasn't played with a specific DM before, to understand whether or not they want to play a rogue or how they should build their rogue. Or any stealth-based character, for that matter.

Any class that significantly hinges on DM interpretation of a specific rule or set of rules is facing a greater degree of uncertainty and risk than a typical player, who normally only needs to worry about variability in the content of the adventure, whereas players of these DM-dependent classes also have to worry about interpretation of vague rules which determine, to a greater extent, how their character can contribute to the adventure.

Same applies to Wild Sorcerer and, to a lesser extent, illusionists.

This isn't a game-killer for certain, but it would likely annoy me to play a rogue in AL play, where every DM is different.

I think I may end up codifying my own stealth rules for handling most situations. I've been trying to hold off on the house rule bandwagon until I've DM'd a full-length campaign through at least three tiers of play, but this (along with vision/obscurement) is one case where I'm having to address it so often at the table that I'm tempted to start implementing something sooner. Stealth is such a major part of my campaign that I really need to standardize the rules, I feel like I owe it to my players, especially when so many of their plans hinge on stealth to some extent.

 

[Mephista]

Why does 5e suck? Because its actually a vampire, duh!
*cough*

More seriously, Doctor Hook covered anything I have issue with, though I would add on that I don't like how some of the sword-and-spell classes work (exception: paladins and arcane tricksters). I'm a huge fan of gishy classes, but the design is generally a bit underwhelming.

 

[ShadowSeeker]

No pricing for magic items (what where they thinking) and no wealth by level guideline.

 

[pming]

Hiya!

(OT Follows)

Out of curiosity, what are the other three (or four)?

* BECMI/RC
* Powers & Perils
* Gamma World 3rd Edition
* Star Frontiers

Runner ups are: Marvel Super Heroes Advanced (FASERIP), Dominion Rules, and Call of Cthulhu. And, for my "WTF is going on?!?" game, Synnibarr. Yes...that Synnibarr. It's Chaotic Neutral with a side order of pizza-47-emotion-purple-gallivanting-airplane-armadillo. Did that last part not make any sense? Great, that's exactly what I was going for in explaining why we (me and my group) like to play it once a year or so. It makes no sense to us either. It's just an itch that comes up every 11 months or so. *shrug*

My faves do switch around every now and then, but for the most part, those top 4 are consistently in the top (with BECMI/RC and P&P pretty much never leaving it).

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[S_Dalsgaard]

No pricing for magic items (what where they thinking) and no wealth by level guideline.

Those two are actually a couple of my favorite things about 5e.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

I'm not a big fan of the six saves. I feel like they could have just made three saves (Fortitude = Strength modifier + Con modifier, for example), and that would have gone a long way toward fixing the issue where a high level character needs a 20 to save against a spell.

I'm not a fan of the way spell slots interact with damage spells. While I like that a Fireball and Burning Hands deal the same damage in a 5th-level slot, any damaging spell in a low-level slot is just... inadequate... next to using a utility spell in that same slot.

The only thing I even come close to hating is the healing Hit Dice mechanic. Even setting the recovery rate as slow as possible - one week long rests, overnight short rest, and long rests restore half Hit Dice and no Hit Point - someone can still go from zero to full overnight. (Granted, they can only do that once every two weeks, but still.) It's nice that they included Lingering Wounds as a variant, but that requires high-level magic to fix, which doesn't work for the kind of low-magic setting I like to run. So while I can cobble together variant rules and house rules into something vaguely resembling what I want, it requires a lot of work, and it's highly likely to put new players off from my game.

 

[delericho]

What do you HATE about 5th Edition?

The same thing I hate about 3e and 4e: they now have three versions of D&D that all come tantalisingly close to perfection and yet none of them quite manages it. There's a point somewhere in the centre there that I can almost get to, and it's driving me crazy.

 

[Lidgar]

Hate nothing.

Minor Gripe?

Not having (in my mind) a true Basic version of the game.

Don't get me wrong, I love that they have a free "basic" version of the game. But I would prefer something even simpler for newbies and veterans alike. Something that stands apart from the "full game", but is compatible with it.

 

[Celtavian]

Hate is a strong word. There are a few things I don't like, but nothing I hate.

1. Healing. In 5E it is better to let a character fall to zero and go unconscious than to try to heal through damage. "Pop up" or "weeble wobble" healing as I refer to it is a more efficient use of spell slots since the PC that falls can pop up after a single heal, stand, and do a full round of attacks for the cost of a 1st level spell slot, whereas healing through heavy damage once low means wasting higher level slots for maybe an additional round of battle. You can get multiple rounds of combat by spending a lower level heal to pop them up. Once you have access to the heal spell or mass cure wounds, you can get a little more bang for the buck healing making it possible to heal a PC up enough to last. Prior to that 5th level slot, better to use "pop up" healing.

2. Concentration. I don't like casting one buff and having my spell list reduced to direct damage and non-concentration attack spells. Makes for a boring game as a caster.

3. I don't like that great weapon fighting and archery are again the best combat options. They have the best support feats other than a sword and board defensive fighter. I would like to see better feat support for two-weapon fighting and single weapon fencing.

4. A few spells could use some rewrites, mainly contagion.

I find the rules intuitive rather than unclear. Some of the lighting rules are a little funky as emdw45 has pointed out. I tend to run them intuitively rather than RAW. I can see after producing a 5th edition that the game designers need to just add a sentence to Stealth and Obscurity that says "The DM should use his judgment to determine when a PC can effectively stealth" and be done with it.

 

[Fralex]

The fact that it's sometimes hard to just talk about something you like with an online community because so many people are apparently more interested in debating whether or not liking it is "justified" or whatever. I've already made up my mind about whether it's good, and I'd rather just share fun stories and advice with other people who share my feelings.