Why does nobody complain about the monk?

[Walking Dad]

1. Because complaining is for wusses.

2. Because monks don't hit for crap. We have players play monks reasonably frequently. They have the highest ACs and CMDs of anyone, but just don't deal the damage. It's called "flurry of misses" for a reason, and stunning fist DCs are a joke. And it's a lot harder/more expensive to magic up the to-hit roll with unarmed.

1. Yes

2. No, Full bab for flurries helps. And the Brass Knuckles in the APG solve the lack of cheap enhancement problem.
How you get the high AC? I mean, for a melee class, I put my highest stat in Str and cannot ignore Con. So Dex second best and wis forth?
If you shortchange your main combat stat for better AC, there has to be a disadvantage.

BTW, I like your storyhours!

 

[Darkthorne]

I would do Wis over Dex as this helps flat-footed AC, your Ki abilities & your DC's. I've built high/ac accurate monks and they never dished out any real damage. Also the flurry of blows is EXTREMELY better now as it is based off of full BAB, however for the most part you have to remain static on the battlefield. Zen Archer looks awesome, but you do give up a lot of abilities I like.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

And the Brass Knuckles in the APG solve the lack of cheap enhancement problem.

You know what would have helped solve that problem? Giving a fair price on the amulet of mighty fists from the start. *generic enraged smiley face*

 

[Kaisoku]

Despite the name ("mighty fists" indeed), the magic item was priced assuming a worst case scenario: an animal or wildshaped druid with numerous natural attacks.

They really should have had an item that gave a bonus to "unarmed strike" and another for "natural attacks". Unarmed strike is, by default, limited... unlike natural attacks (which can have many, ex: Dragons).

Even them, the item was limited to a +5 bonus. Even with Pathfinder's change to allow enhancement effects (without the +1 requirement), allowing you to stack greater magic fang or weapon with an amulet, it still was more limited than a regular weapon.

Creating a weapon that could take on the unarmed strike damage circumvents most of the issues involved (including the other end of the spectrum: brass knuckles can be sundered if needed).

 

[gamerprinter]

One way I think to improve the Monk class is expanding the Ki powers, right now its bypassing some DR, and some maneuver abilities. I've been working on a ninja variant for my Kaidan setting and think to emulate psionics in the form of limited selections as ki powers, like combat maneuvers at distance, special movement like 'running up walls', passing through walls, walking on water, blink and phasing similar to Ethereal Jaunt, a form of Wraithstrike and metabolic powers to increase strength, AC bonuses, etc.

I planned to develop five different Ninja houses with specific flavor and different available sets of Ki powers, feats, and weapon preferences.

This same concept could easily be applied to Monks giving that class the boost it needs to be more powerful and more fun to play.

GP

 

[Glade Riven]

...emulate psionics in the form of limited selections as ki powers, like combat maneuvers at distance, special movement like 'running up walls', ... etc.

Maybe. If I wanted to play a monk like that, I'd probably ask the DM if I could play a monkified swordsage from Bo9S (swap the proficiencies to monk for weapons and armor, drop in the monk's unarmed proficiancies).

Adapting Pathfinder's anybody-can-craft-magical-items feat to a tattooist would be easy, and the concept of magical tattoos to add enhancements is cool. Trying to pump both offense and defense through that method would get pricy, but locking up a monk's portion of the treasure into his tattoos would allow for a certaint type of flavor to be maintained.

If I played as a monk, I'd go dwarf, trollkin (Iron Kingdoms), or warforged (Eberron). A warforged monk would be nasty between an enchanted body and warforged feats (Eberron Player's Guide implies that Adamantine Body is a work-around for class abilities that don't work while wearing armor).

 

[billd91]

Despite the name ("mighty fists" indeed), the magic item was priced assuming a worst case scenario: an animal or wildshaped druid with numerous natural attacks.

They really should have had an item that gave a bonus to "unarmed strike" and another for "natural attacks". Unarmed strike is, by default, limited... unlike natural attacks (which can have many, ex: Dragons).

I sort of agree with the cost of the amulet of mighty fists being too high. However, the unarmed strike is not really limited. I suppose you could say that you get a limited number of them in any single round, but there's no limit to what that unarmed strike can be. It can be a punch, a kick, a head butt, a hip check, a knee, whatever. That means it can never truly be disarmed and, though it has a weak base damage for most PCs, it's something to be considered. It should be more expensive to enchant, but probably only by a moderate flat amount to reflect non-disarmability and high situational flexibility.

 

[Kaisoku]

"Limited" meant, you had one attack (or it could be used for iteratives). This is unlike the term "natural attacks", because that includes bites, claws, hooves, wings, tentacles, whatever.

It really was about the "number of attacks". The cost of the amulet was at 2.5x the normal costs (ie, assuming using more than two weapons... bite + clawx2 is a fairly normal natural attack routine).
Weapons can be protected against disarming (locked gauntlet) and sundering (adamantine), but having an attack routine that includes a half dozen extra attacks?

Unarmed Strike and Natural Attacks really are two different beasts when it comes to the value and costs compared to normal weapons.
I'd probably price an item boosting unarmed strikes at a 1.5x cost, or a flat cost (~5k?).

The Brass Knuckles suffers sundering normally (although I think disarming is harder), and it locks you into using that one fist to make your attacks, so it brings unarmed strike down to weapon levels. Perfectly fine at a normal enhancement cost.

 

[Odhanan]

I can't help but think this is a trolling attempt...

But to answer your question, no one here complains about the monk because the people on this forum have actually seen the monk in play.

Basically.

There are some heavily mitigating aspects to playing a Monk character. None of crippling for the smart player and DM (who includes stuff like the brass knuckles alluded to earlier in this thread and similar items), but all in all, it is not an easy class to play under typical circumstances.

 

[Azmyth]

posted to wrong thread.