Why does STR affect Attack Bonus?

[silentspace]

That isn't the case of not using strength, it is an example of not using strength the correct way. It is a common issue when teaching an unnatural style of movement, such as dance. The hard part is often unlearning the habit of tensing the wrong muscles. (The wrong muscles are the right muscles in everyday life.)

The secret to speed is Strength + Relaxation. I do not see how dexterity or reflexes has anything to do with it. By some stretch of the imagination it is a coordination issue, but it is more related to proper training IMO. Naturally coordinated people develop habits from living their life like everyone else.

I agree with what you say, but I have different definitions. What you term "using strength the correct way", I term DEX. I think it is a coordination issue. Certainly it can be improved by proper training, just as STR and CON can also be improved by proper training.

 

[silentspace]

Out of curiousity, are there similar concepts for the other abilities? Such as 'using dexterity the correct way', or 'using constitution the correct way'?

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

There is certainly ambiguity about where natural coordination ends (Dex) and skill begins, silentspace. Cannot deny that.

Out of curiousity, are there similar concepts for the other abilities? Such as 'using dexterity the correct way', or 'using constitution the correct way'?

I certainly know RL examples of 'using Int the right/wrong way'. But you could also call that an Wisdom issue.

It is easier to point to examples of relying on something to one's detriment.

 

[silentspace]

I certainly know RL examples of 'using Int the right/wrong way'.

ROFL!

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

silentspace,

There are certainly RL examples of 60somethings who are outright faster at making certain dance moves than the stronger, more dextrous, more flexible, 20somethings with better stamina. To say that the 60something has better "Dex" is not a reasonable assumption.

It is a training issue.

 

[silentspace]

That's true. But what's wrong with saying the 60somethings have levels in Expert, and many ranks in Perform (Dance?). Actually, that's a bad analogy, since Perform is a CHA based skill

 

[Staffan]

Out of curiousity, are there similar concepts for the other abilities? Such as 'using dexterity the correct way', or 'using constitution the correct way'?

Sure. They're called "skills." Someone relying on his natural coordination to walk a tightrope will find that it's pretty dang hard to roll DC 20 with just your Dex bonus (unless you're an elder air elemental or something with Dex 33 for a bonus of +11 - but if you're an air elemental, you can fly anyway so don't have to bother with the rope). Get some training (skill ranks) to learn to use your natural coordination the right way, and things get a lot easier.

 

[Ranger REG]

I agree with storyteller, and I think the comparisons between a strong and dextrous fighter versus a weak and dextrous fighter are flawed. People who are weak are not automatically dextrous. And people who are strong are not automatically uncoordinated. IRL all great athletes have high STR and DEX. Even those who don't look any bigger than average people usually are much stronger!

Anyway, the question was why does STR affect Attack Bonus? The general consensus seems to be because it helps punch through armor. Which doesn't work for me. I think that would be why STR affects Damage Bonus, not Attack Bonus. IMO DEX affecting Attack Bonus would be a better model of reality.

For ranged attack, yes. But how hard you think it is to hit someone close-quarter?

Take baseball. Does STR or DEX help you hit the ball better? I think pretty clearly it is DEX. Does STR or DEX help you hit homeruns? Just as clearly, it is STR. It's not the same as fighting, but I think the same principle applies.

Take baseball. Does STR or DEX help you get to the home plate with a catcher blocking you? If you intend to avoid him, then that would be DEX (catcher tries to tag, you react defensively applying your DEX to Defense/AC). If you intend to bowl him over, then that would be STR (roll for a melee charge attack with your STR), and hopefully the ball will pop out of his mitt.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Take baseball. Does STR or DEX help you hit the ball better? I think pretty clearly it is DEX. Does STR or DEX help you hit homeruns? Just as clearly, it is STR. It's not the same as fighting, but I think the same principle applies.

Actually, in this case, a lot of sports medicine studies have shown that one of the main qualities of the slugger superstar is eyesight-- the great ones can tell what kind of pitch it is by how the stitches are rotating.

So, apparently... it's WIS.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

Actually, in this case, a lot of sports medicine studies have shown that one of the main qualities of the slugger superstar is eyesight-- the great ones can tell what kind of pitch it is by how the stitches are rotating.

So, apparently... it's WIS.

Which is why Profession (Baseball) is the relevant skill here, not BAB!

However, if Dex were as/more important than Str to hitting the baseball, then steroid use in the MLB wouldn't be a significant issue.

Anyway, people who talk about 'precision' and 'skill' aren't talking about Dex, they're talking about BAB.

Every fighting style uses BAB, some use finesse weapons like the foil and dagger use Dex, and power weapons like the katana and greataxe use Str.

As a GM, I do allow finessable weapons to be finessed without the feat, since those weapons tend to be somewhat weaker than power weapons. However, I certainly wouldn't allow all weapons to be finessed, much less require it.