Why everyone think that Battlemaster is better than Samurai?

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Still simple to use but additional skill, language, wis saving throw made him a more interesting character.
samurai is not the best name.
this build can be use to play a Knight, an wise soldier.
Well Knight etc are always to my thinking the same as Samurai (sans Orientalism). So to me that is a success.
 

Sacrosanct

Legend
What are you talking about? The Samurai was printed in Xanathar's Guide to Everything, it's not just in an unofficial pdf...
point still stands. I’m sure many more people own the PHB than the XGE. And many groups limit things to core books only (I’m in one now, because the DM doesn’t want a pile of books to have to keep referencing to or to have to know all of the possible combinations)
 

Undrave

Adventurer
point still stands. I’m sure many more people own the PHB than the XGE. And many groups limit things to core books only (I’m in one now, because the DM doesn’t want a pile of books to have to keep referencing to or to have to know all of the possible combinations)
Fair enough! I myself don't own the XGE because I can't justify the price for something I'll only partially use (since I don't DM), though my group has one available. I did get the Spell Cards because they were useful to my previous Druid!

I'm still not sure why DMs are so paranoid about other books in 5e though, but that's not relevant to the current discussion. I personally think the Adventure League rule of "PHB+1" is a good way to allow some new options without going overboard with cross checking of books and stuff.
 

Salthorae

Imperial Mountain Dew Taster
I like how a year and a half-old thread more than doubled it's post count in like 6 hours today :)

On the point of the thread though... I think a lot of it has to do with flavor honestly. Samurai occupies a very specific mind space that doesn't fit into many campaigns easily without reskinning (totally doable, but when people want to play a 'Samurai' they want to play a Samurai, not a reskinned Samurai as a Western Knight or something like that.

Battlemaster OTOH is versatile, generic, and applicable to any kind of setting, even one where Samurai is a "normal" fighter.

Thematically as well they both occupy a similar space as the "rounded fighter" with BM getting proficiency in artisan's tools and Samurai an Int/Wis skill. Samurai wins here though because it gets proficiency in Wis saving throws.

Battlemaster is slightly more powerful earlier, so it also sees its peak in the levels where most games play or die.

Samurai is super powerful... eventually.

I mean the nova potential is staggering at level 15 if it is really optimized with Fighting Spirit, Action Surge, and Rapid Strikes, GWM, Polearm mastery, and if you took magic initiate or multi-classed a bit to pick up Hunter's Mark or some such...

Assuming Hunter's Mark is up before combat
Round 1 = 3 attacks at advantage + Action Surge 2 attacks at advantage + 2 attacks Rapid Strike + Bonus action attack (Polearm master) = 8 Attacks for 7d10+98+1d4+14+8d6... oof, that is just round 1 :)
 
On the point of the thread though... I think a lot of it has to do with flavor honestly. Samurai occupies a very specific mind space that doesn't fit into many campaigns easily without reskinning (totally doable, but when people want to play a 'Samurai' they want to play a Samurai, not a reskinned Samurai as a Western Knight or something like that.
It talks about refluffing in the original subclass text, and there isn't really anything particularly samurai-ish about the subclass. It's basically just badly named.
 

Salthorae

Imperial Mountain Dew Taster
It talks about refluffing in the original subclass text, and there isn't really anything particularly samurai-ish about the subclass. It's basically just badly named.
Yes, but that takes "effort" and "reading".

Also, regardless of what the subclass text says, most casual gamers and even non-casual gamers who I've met just skip over it because it says "SamuraI" on the tin not "1 round Nova fighter that develops a ton in later levels". It took me a long time to give its abilities due consideration as well because of the name on the tin.

What would you re-name it to give it more appeal?
 

Don Durito

Explorer
Some people like having a signature schtick, though.
No doubt. But I read the OP's question as meaning "people in general" and not "all people everywhere". I . did so on the basis that while the first seems reasonable, although I can't be actually sure it is true, the latter seems ridiculous. The principles of charitable reading presume I don't leap to the unjustified conclusion that the OP is an idiot, and therefore I went with the "people in general" interpretation of 'everyone'.

Therefore, when exlaining a factor why I think "everyone" prefers the Battlemind, I do not have to account for all people.
 
Yes, but that takes "effort" and "reading".

Also, regardless of what the subclass text says, most casual gamers and even non-casual gamers who I've met just skip over it because it says "SamuraI" on the tin not "1 round Nova fighter that develops a ton in later levels". It took me a long time to give its abilities due consideration as well because of the name on the tin.

What would you re-name it to give it more appeal?
Now that is the big question, and goes to the heart of the fluff vs mechanics issue. I would probably have not included it at all, on the grounds of being insufficiently distinctive. If a player wants to make a samurai, Champion, Battlemaster or Banneret do everything you would want it to. There is no samurai shaped hole. In comparison the Kensei monk actually feels both distinctive and Wuxia-ish.

I would have put more effort into making sure the Arcane Archer didn't suck instead.
 
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Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
For me in real life Samurai fighting style is kind of bursty so the one round nova fits. This could be seen as a distinction in itself even though the general populous might not make the connection. I mean there is a crown oath paladin if you want to get a magical boost from an oath which might be seen as akin to the oath of the Bushi or the Thane. In 4e depending on details of fighting style i wanted for a Samurai I might take a Weaponmaster or a Ranger or another class. (Heck maybe even a Slayer).

I think it is important if you want to explore the game broadly and role play various types to eventually figure out that the name of a a class really isn't important
 
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Samurai is basically Japanese for knight, and wide variety of fighting styles would be appropriate (including archery, something a European knight would have considered a pastime for peasants).

It's really more of a Background (noble) and alignment (lawful) thing.

The Xanathar's subclass makes me think "elvish" if it makes me think of anything at all.
 

5ekyu

Adventurer
Samurai is basically Japanese for knight, and wide variety of fighting styles would be appropriate (including archery, something a European knight would have considered a pastime for peasants).

It's really more of a Background (noble) and alignment (lawful) thing.

The Xanathar's subclass makes me think "elvish" if it makes me think of anything at all.
The Xanathar dub-vlass points me to educated warrior and nobleman, almost the sort of classic "adventurer trope" of Verne and Burrows - courtly and deadly.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
The Xanathar dub-vlass points me to educated warrior and nobleman, almost the sort of classic "adventurer trope" of Verne and Burrows - courtly and deadly.
The educated warrior exactly... the stereotype that the Knights were dunce cap uneducated is rather a deficiency of understanding that D&D has propagated.
 

Arnwolf666

Adventurer
84% of D&D players are functionally illiterate. And the other 16% are lying liars.
I must be old. My players have read freaking everything in the science fiction and fantasy genre as well as classical literature and historical. Most of us are pretty good hunters and outdoorsman too.
 

lowkey13

I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
I must be old. My players have read freaking everything in the science fiction and fantasy genre as well as classical literature and historical. Most of us are pretty good hunters and outdoorsman too.
See what I mean? 16%

HOW BIG WAS THAT FISH THAT YOU CAUGHT?

;)
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
How about renaming it "Beau Sabreur" then?
Handsome was something I straight up knew and saber is from the french too, but I doubt this is exactly a commonly known term. It might have the questionable advantage of being zero expectations for some if not all people.
 
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Dausuul

Legend
1. You can get advantage on attacks from many different sources. Battle master maneuvers stack with advantage from wherever. Fighting Spirit does not.

2. Most campaigns take place at low- to mid-levels. Battle masters start hitting on all cylinders at level 3. Samurai are heavily back-loaded. A level 10 ability is far less valuable than a level 3 ability, and a level 15 ability is worthless in all but a sliver of campaigns.

3. The battle master is far more versatile. You can take one maneuver as a "bread and butter" pick to maximize damage output, and then use the others for more tactical choices. The samurai has no such flexibility.

4. Battle masters are very good at party synergy. Commander's Strike is a rogue's best friend. Trip Attack can set up the entire party to attack with advantage if properly timed. Goading Attack can keep the enemy focused on you, protecting the squishy folks in the back. Samurai are more focused on their own personal damage output.
 
Handsome was something I straight up knew and saber is from the french too, but I doubt this is exactly a commonly known term. It might have the questionable advantage of being zero expectations for some if not all people.
"not well known" was what I was aiming for. It's actually a synonym for "swashbuckler" - originally a sobriquet for one of Napoleon's marshals I believe.
 

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