D&D 5E Why I Think D&DN is In Trouble

[Hussar]

But that's presuming the brand needs a jump start. Making a movie that is as popular and profitable as say the Thor movies - did well but not rocking anyone's socks - would be perfectly fine.

 

[nofax1]

The problem is the things the rules don't cover like role playing, story, world building, etc...etc... are not inherent to that game. So they don't count. You can play any edition of D&D in the forgotten realms, playing the same adventure for instance. That has no bearing on the mechanics. Its the other way around. The mechanics can enhance or degrade the role playing, story, and world building, not the other way around.

I'm not beholden to any given rule set. I'm beholden to ideals like:

Tactical options on level up and each round of play.
One options (class, race, etc...etc...) should not be an obvious better choice than another option under all circumstances.
Players should not be punished for wanting to play a specific character concept.
The difference between an optimized character and an unoptimized character should not be so great that they can't play at the same table.

There are more, but those are the ones that 5E fail on that are on the top of my head.

Without having seen the final product it is difficult to make those sorts of final judgements against Next. I think min-maxing character choices is a wasted effort that only takes into account damage output. Damage isn't everything and it should never impact your choices and the narrative that you want to pursue for your character. Not every character should have equal damage output and that doesn't necessarily mean they are being punished. Some buff other players and some heal and some tank. They can still do damage but not at the level as a class whose designed specifically for damage output.

I think the only thing that can impact the movement of the story are rules that cause you to micro-manage encounters and I think that is what 4e avoided and I am sure that 5e will do the same.

 

[Ahnehnois]

Problem is, you can't make a movie about a rules set.

They made a movie based on the game of Battleship. They made a franchise based on an amusement park ride. I don't think there has to be a lot of substance, just a recognizable name and a starting point.

Because only a success of this magnitude would jump start the D&D brand. Just making a little money is not enough for that.

I think there is some middle ground between huge blockbuster and marginal success created by Hollywood accounting.

That said, I don't see why a D&D movie, with or without an established setting, couldn't be a huge blockbuster if it was done well. Great successes have come from lesser properties.

 

[Lokiare]

Without having seen the final product it is difficult to make those sorts of final judgements against Next. I think min-maxing character choices is a wasted effort that only takes into account damage output. Damage isn't everything and it should never impact your choices and the narrative that you want to pursue for your character. Not every character should have equal damage output and that doesn't necessarily mean they are being punished. Some buff other players and some heal and some tank. They can still do damage but not at the level as a class whose designed specifically for damage output.

I think the only thing that can impact the movement of the story are rules that cause you to micro-manage encounters and I think that is what 4e avoided and I am sure that 5e will do the same.

Nice try, but they have shown no inclination to try to implement these things in 5E and given no indication that they are even aware of the lack of them.

In other words you are trying to convince me with zero evidence that they will suddenly change things drastically to make a completely different game.

Based on the known evidence it is more likely that the won't change the game to fix these problems.

It would be like me telling you that the center of the moon is definitely made of green cheese, because they haven't gotten core samples deep enough to disprove it. While its possible, its not very likely (besides everyone knows its made of yellow cheese)...

 

[nofax1]

Nice try, but they have shown no inclination to try to implement these things in 5E and given no indication that they are even aware of the lack of them.

In other words you are trying to convince me with zero evidence that they will suddenly change things drastically to make a completely different game.

Based on the known evidence it is more likely that the won't change the game to fix these problems.

It would be like me telling you that the center of the moon is definitely made of green cheese, because they haven't gotten core samples deep enough to disprove it. While its possible, its not very likely (besides everyone knows its made of yellow cheese)...

I'm not trying to convince you of anything. All I said is that we don't know what the final product will be. You know as much as I do, which is nothing. I am only making the assumption that they won't make managing encounters more difficult than it is in 4e. Of course I may be incorrect about this but I have no idea. All I am saying is reserve judgement until after the final product has shipped. If it does ultimately suck then what's the worst that can happen? You don't buy it? I just think that all this complaining about something that doesn't exist is wasted energy.

 

[Lokiare]

I'm not trying to convince you of anything. All I said is that we don't know what the final product will be. You know as much as I do, which is nothing. I am only making the assumption that they won't make managing encounters more difficult than it is in 4e. Of course I may be incorrect about this but I have no idea. All I am saying is reserve judgement until after the final product has shipped. If it does ultimately suck then what's the worst that can happen? You don't buy it? I just think that all this complaining about something that doesn't exist is wasted energy.

We don't know, but the likelihood based on the currently available information leans in the direction of it not happening. There is some evidence that they change things they notice and there is evidence that they talk about what they change. So its less and less likely that they are going to make massive changes without putting something in one of their articles.

The time to talk is now before the books go to the printers. After they announce the release date and it gets to be a month or two out. I'll stop beating the dead horse, because at that point there is no going back. Until that time I have the, albeit slim, hope that they might make a game that most of us can like and play.

 

[nofax1]

We don't know, but the likelihood based on the currently available information leans in the direction of it not happening. There is some evidence that they change things they notice and there is evidence that they talk about what they change. So its less and less likely that they are going to make massive changes without putting something in one of their articles.

The time to talk is now before the books go to the printers. After they announce the release date and it gets to be a month or two out. I'll stop beating the dead horse, because at that point there is no going back. Until that time I have the, albeit slim, hope that they might make a game that most of us can like and play.

Let's just hope for the best. I am, however, a little miffed with announcement that they will be removing all 4e tools from DDI once Next is released. Perhaps I can convince them to rethink that decision.

 

[Hussar]

Let's just hope for the best. I am, however, a little miffed with announcement that they will be removing all 4e tools from DDI once Next is released. Perhaps I can convince them to rethink that decision.

I missed that announcement. When was that?

 

[nofax1]

I missed that announcement. When was that?

Oops. Perhaps I misread the announcement. From a D&D Insider renewal email announcement from Jan 28th:

Starting in March of 2014, the DDI tool set (Character Builder, Adventure Tools and Compendium), will no longer be updated with new 4th Edition game content.

It seems that the tools will still be available but there will be no more additional updates to those tools. That makes me feel a little better.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Dausuul]

They made a movie based on the game of Battleship. They made a franchise based on an amusement park ride.

Indeed - and while Battleship bombed (heh), the movie based on the amusement park ride became a colossal hit that has spawned multiple sequels.

Now, movies based on games and other such properties have a generally wretched history. Most of them suck. But that doesn't mean they're all doomed to suck forever.