ZombieRoboNinja
First Post
(Cross-posted from the WOTC forums.)
First, a disclaimer: I really like Next so far. Even if WOTC ignored everything I suggest in this thread, I still expect Next to be my favorite edition of D&D. That said, I worry it's falling short of its potential in certain ways.
The biggest problem I see is the way martial classes have been homogenized over the last few packets. When martial damage dice were introduced (as Combat Superiority), it was an awesome idea because it gave fighters something unique. More specifically, it gave them their own "resource" to manage, which recharged every round but forced the player to choose to focus his attention offensively (Deadly Strike), defensively (Parry), or in some other way via maneuvers. The fact that this dice pool was a limited resource meant that it was okay if a fighter putting all his dice in Parry was incredibly hard to kill, because it meant he wasn't putting out much damage; it was also okay if he dished out the pain, because doing so meant that he was more vulnerable to attack. And the maneuver system meant that he could gain real, powerful options to use in conjunction with, or in place of, those basics.
Unfortunately, Combat Superiority was a quick victim of its own popularity. They tried to expand the whole system to rogues, and when that seemed a bit too "samey," they took away maneuvers from rogues but kept the damage dice in place. And then, the biggest change of all, in this latest packet they made it so dice recharge every TURN - so in other words, you can use all your dice on bonus damage AND on Parry, since you parry as a reaction on someone else's turn.
This basically ruins the "resource management" aspect of these dice. Now there's no tradeoff between offense and defense. And it sounds like they're considering making things even worse next packet by basically making maneuvers work like skill tricks, so they take your whole action. (This would probably mean that you can't combine multiple maneuvers in one action.) At that point, maneuvers are basically just combat feats, and we're in essence back to 3e fighter design.
So I've complained about fighters a bit - let me shift the focus to other martial classes. See, the other downside of "martial damage dice" is that by giving all weapon-focused classes (at this point, that's fighters, rogues, monks, and barbarians) the same "base" damage, it becomes a lot tougher to differentiate them in combat. That's why Sneak Attack is now wimpy: as Mearls pointed out, bonus damage + advantage + MDD is way too powerful. It's probably also why the new barbarian has lots of abilities that let him throw caution to the wind to strike more accurately: if he just did a bunch of extra damage with Rage and/or Heedless Strike rather than gaining advantage, it'd throw their numbers out of whack. And hey, it's why the only maneuver in the game that does more damage than just adding all your dice to the attack, the monk's Flurry of Blows, is enough to make that class way more offensively powerful than any other.
Moreover, this model flattens out tactical options to an alarming extend. The rogue has always been a class that could put out impressive damage in just the right circumstances: backstabbing, sneak attacking, etc. But now, the highest-damage strategy for rogues is simply to walk up to a guy and stab him in the face with a basic attack every round. Fighters? Walk up to a guy and stab him in the face. Monks? Walk up to a guy and Flurry of Blows him in the face. Barbarians? Rage if you've got it, then walk up to a guy and... yeah. (Okay, this one kind of fits.)
My suggestion: first, they should make MDD refresh once per round, at the beginning of your turn, again. That brings back the basic resource-management aspect of them.
Second, they should scale them back for every class that's not a fighter. That way, a fighter going "all-out offense" does more damage than any other class does by walking up to people and stabbing them in the face - but at the same time, a fighter saving a die or two for Parry or Protect still does damage on par with other martial classes, ASSUMING those classes aren't Sneak Attacking or spending Ki points or raging or whatever. Now, this step may require some thinking. My personal preference would be just getting rid of MDD for non-fighter classes altogether, and instead just doing what 4e did and making ALL weapon attacks do 2W or 3W damage at a certain level if the math requires it. That way, non-fighters don't have to keep track of a halfass pile of damage dice that they can't even use for maneuvers. Fighter MDD would be on top of that. But even if they just give other classes a slower progression like they did clerics, that'd be an improvement.
Third, give those other classes their own ways to do more damage. Make it worth a rogue's while to scramble for advantage so they can get in a Sneak Attack (or whatever Sneak Attack alternatives they may have chosen). If we're going to have the entire basis of the Barbarian class be the "rage" ability (not my favorite idea), then give them a bonus to friggin' damage instead of a bonus to accuracy. Give monks enough Ki points to make them worth paying attention to, and let them use it for more powerful attacks. This way, those classes feel different in combat and have stronger incentives to make use of their own class-specific advantages.
First, a disclaimer: I really like Next so far. Even if WOTC ignored everything I suggest in this thread, I still expect Next to be my favorite edition of D&D. That said, I worry it's falling short of its potential in certain ways.
The biggest problem I see is the way martial classes have been homogenized over the last few packets. When martial damage dice were introduced (as Combat Superiority), it was an awesome idea because it gave fighters something unique. More specifically, it gave them their own "resource" to manage, which recharged every round but forced the player to choose to focus his attention offensively (Deadly Strike), defensively (Parry), or in some other way via maneuvers. The fact that this dice pool was a limited resource meant that it was okay if a fighter putting all his dice in Parry was incredibly hard to kill, because it meant he wasn't putting out much damage; it was also okay if he dished out the pain, because doing so meant that he was more vulnerable to attack. And the maneuver system meant that he could gain real, powerful options to use in conjunction with, or in place of, those basics.
Unfortunately, Combat Superiority was a quick victim of its own popularity. They tried to expand the whole system to rogues, and when that seemed a bit too "samey," they took away maneuvers from rogues but kept the damage dice in place. And then, the biggest change of all, in this latest packet they made it so dice recharge every TURN - so in other words, you can use all your dice on bonus damage AND on Parry, since you parry as a reaction on someone else's turn.
This basically ruins the "resource management" aspect of these dice. Now there's no tradeoff between offense and defense. And it sounds like they're considering making things even worse next packet by basically making maneuvers work like skill tricks, so they take your whole action. (This would probably mean that you can't combine multiple maneuvers in one action.) At that point, maneuvers are basically just combat feats, and we're in essence back to 3e fighter design.
So I've complained about fighters a bit - let me shift the focus to other martial classes. See, the other downside of "martial damage dice" is that by giving all weapon-focused classes (at this point, that's fighters, rogues, monks, and barbarians) the same "base" damage, it becomes a lot tougher to differentiate them in combat. That's why Sneak Attack is now wimpy: as Mearls pointed out, bonus damage + advantage + MDD is way too powerful. It's probably also why the new barbarian has lots of abilities that let him throw caution to the wind to strike more accurately: if he just did a bunch of extra damage with Rage and/or Heedless Strike rather than gaining advantage, it'd throw their numbers out of whack. And hey, it's why the only maneuver in the game that does more damage than just adding all your dice to the attack, the monk's Flurry of Blows, is enough to make that class way more offensively powerful than any other.
Moreover, this model flattens out tactical options to an alarming extend. The rogue has always been a class that could put out impressive damage in just the right circumstances: backstabbing, sneak attacking, etc. But now, the highest-damage strategy for rogues is simply to walk up to a guy and stab him in the face with a basic attack every round. Fighters? Walk up to a guy and stab him in the face. Monks? Walk up to a guy and Flurry of Blows him in the face. Barbarians? Rage if you've got it, then walk up to a guy and... yeah. (Okay, this one kind of fits.)
My suggestion: first, they should make MDD refresh once per round, at the beginning of your turn, again. That brings back the basic resource-management aspect of them.
Second, they should scale them back for every class that's not a fighter. That way, a fighter going "all-out offense" does more damage than any other class does by walking up to people and stabbing them in the face - but at the same time, a fighter saving a die or two for Parry or Protect still does damage on par with other martial classes, ASSUMING those classes aren't Sneak Attacking or spending Ki points or raging or whatever. Now, this step may require some thinking. My personal preference would be just getting rid of MDD for non-fighter classes altogether, and instead just doing what 4e did and making ALL weapon attacks do 2W or 3W damage at a certain level if the math requires it. That way, non-fighters don't have to keep track of a halfass pile of damage dice that they can't even use for maneuvers. Fighter MDD would be on top of that. But even if they just give other classes a slower progression like they did clerics, that'd be an improvement.
Third, give those other classes their own ways to do more damage. Make it worth a rogue's while to scramble for advantage so they can get in a Sneak Attack (or whatever Sneak Attack alternatives they may have chosen). If we're going to have the entire basis of the Barbarian class be the "rage" ability (not my favorite idea), then give them a bonus to friggin' damage instead of a bonus to accuracy. Give monks enough Ki points to make them worth paying attention to, and let them use it for more powerful attacks. This way, those classes feel different in combat and have stronger incentives to make use of their own class-specific advantages.
