Why is Polar Ray an 8th level spell?

[jaelis]

It's simple: No save.

But even if you assume everyone saves, DFB can do half as much damage to many more than twice as many targets, plus it is a level lower and has the delay feature.

An empowered orb does more damage to a single target, has an additional effect, is SR no, and is only effective level 6.

Deadfall does equal damage to multiple targets with no save, no SR, and has an additional effect.

The only way that polar ray becomes at all competetive is if you are above CL 20, due to the high damage cap.

 

[Enkhidu]

But even if you assume everyone saves, DFB can do half as much damage to many more than twice as many targets, plus it is a level lower and has the delay feature.

An empowered orb does more damage to a single target, has an additional effect, is SR no, and is only effective level 6.

Deadfall does equal damage to multiple targets with no save, no SR, and has an additional effect.

The only way that polar ray becomes at all competetive is if you are above CL 20, due to the high damage cap.

The first example, balanced (half as much damage as area effect), and core.
The second, not core.
The third, not core.

If core is assumed to be basically balanced, then I think we have a case of pwoer creep.

 

[Asha'man]

Polar Ray is not a bad 8th level spell, it is quite adequate. It's not GREAT, but as has been stated, high damage cap and no save make it useful. Or rather, it should be useful. The reason it isn't is power creep -the Orb spells (And certainly Deadfall) are simply too good. For people who use those spells and still care about internal balance, it might be dropped to lvl 7 or upped to use d8 for damage, but I think you'd do better to nerf the others.

(On a tangent, I might add that I don't think vancian spellcasters are systematically broken -there are just too many overpowered spells. And not just in splatbooks either)

-Edit: Grr, ninjaed!

 

[Will]

DFB is better because it does half as much damage to many targets?

Well, that's great. If you have more than two targets. And they are close together. And you can arrange not to hit your allies. And the targets don't have evasion.

The fact that a given spell is more useful in a specific situation than another, and the other is more useful in different situations, is a feature, not a bug.


And removing damage caps on spells would pretty much break the system. Personally, I wish the system was designed like psionics; flat damage based on spell level. Want to do more damage? Cast a more powerful spell. But that's me.

 

[Kerrick]

The high damage cap, and bad spell design.

Damage caps are a result of level, not the other way around. If I make a spell that makes a ray of cold - touch attack (so no save) that deals 1d6/level. If I make it 3rd level, the cap would be 10d6. If I made it 5th level, the cap would be 15d6. If I made it 7th level, the cap would be 20d6.

No save, people. That's the reason it's 8th level.

It doesn't have a save because it's a ray. Ranged touch spells never have a save because you have make an attack roll.

I think its it's 8th level because 8th level sucks for evocations. We've got Bigby's clenched fist (deals 1d8+11 once/round), Otiluke's TK sphere (no damage, but can be used to move opponents), greater shout (good spell, but a chance of catching your friends in it), and sunburst (best against undead, but has a chance of blinding your friends). Greater shout tops the list here because it's sonic damage and can stun targets, but polar ray is also good because it's a touch attack. You could put it at any level and have it work - it just ended up at 8th.

 

[evilbob]

This might be too difficult to articulate over a forum, but I believe many folks have gotten something a bit turned around: the spell isn't 8th level because it has a 25d6 damage cap; it has a 25d6 damage cap because it is 8th level. It isn't 8th level because it doesn't allow a save and it is only a touch attack; it allows no save and is a touch attack because it is a ray.

It's really just a standard evocation ray spell that does single-round cold-typed damage to one target of any type. The "reason" why it is 8th level is because as an 8th level, it is allowed a high damage cap.

If you're looking for some kind of reason why it doesn't do "more," I'd say the spells seems fine to me. It looks like it may be the potentially most powerful single-target, burst-damage spell (i.e. not "damage over rounds) in the PHB spell selection (other than meteor storm, which is 9th level and takes 4 touch attack rolls but could do 32d6 damage to a single target), and the fact that it requires only a touch attack roll instead of a save and works on any creature that isn't immune to cold (as opposed to only working on "living" creatures) makes it seem pretty strong to me.

(If I were an evoker and had a couple bonuses to my caster level, this spell seems like a prime candidate for Arcane Thesis + Energy Substitution + Empowering...)

Edit: Kerrick beat me to the punch!

 

[Will]

Polar ray + sudden maximize + energy substitution sounds like a pretty solid candidate for high level blasting.

 

[Folly]

I do not get why people keep saying that it not having a save is such a great feature. A d20 is still being rolled, the only thing that is changing is who is doing the rolling. And for those who say, but the wizard will never miss the attack: Dragons. If it was a reflex save from a high level wizard the dragon is just as boned either way. There are numerous other example of either high reflex save, high touch ac, low reflex save, and low touch ac. Also bringing quicken True Strike into the picture is adding a 5th level spell to the picture. The trick to being an evoker is to have a wide variety of spells prepared in order to exploit the weakness of the target.

Thus since touch attack vs reflex save is about equivalent, comparing it against DFB is a good comparison. DFB can affect multiple targets but there are no tricks to increase your DCs, while Polar Ray is a single target but you can augment your hit bonus without too much cost. Yet DFB has the delayed effect in addition to the damage it does.

 

[Slaved]

I would rather use an Energy Substituted Maximized Empowered Scorching Ray Spell. It is One Level Lower and I can use it on up to Three Targets at one time!

I would not even say that this is a Good Option but I would find it Preferable!

 

[pawsplay]

Didn't it use to share bunk space with freezing sphere? If so, part of the reason may be legacy. Anyway, it's just fine at the level it is, and while it certainly invites researching more exciting spells for that level, that's fine, too.