Why is the spiked chain so good?

[Kerrick]

And what would you do to fix it?

A spiked chain has reach, so you can strike opponents 10 feet away with it. In addition, unlike most other weapons with reach, it can be used against an adjacent foe.

You can make trip attacks with the chain. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the chain to avoid being tripped.

When using a spiked chain, you get a +2 bonus on opposed attack rolls made to disarm an opponent (including the roll to avoid being disarmed if such an attempt fails).

You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a spiked chain sized for you, even though it isn’t a light weapon for you.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I'd do nothing to "fix" it. It's one of the few exotic weapons actually worth a feat.

As to why it's so good, it's not useful for sheer damage output. It's goood because a Fighter can handle that just fine already. It lets a Fighter easily do all kinds of other stuff: threaten every square out to double his normal reach (best used with enlarge), trip at range (including stopping an enemy charge dead with the aoo for reach), +2 disarm as well as the two-handed bonus (note: disarming a prone foe is effectively another +8 bonus), and using dex to hit (not that important to me; you 2H to add massive str to the damage, usually). Also, now for some builds, it's worth it to get Shadow Blade, adding your dex to damage on top of strength x1.5

So, it's good for the same reason a whip (the only other core exotic weapon "worth it") is good: it lets you do all kinds of tricks you couldn't with a greatsword.

 

[Darklone]

Power attacking halfling with spiked chain: More damage than humans = pain.

 

[pawsplay]

It's not that strong. What it does is give you options. You can't exercise them all at the same time, though. It's finessable, but if you go for high Dex, lower Str, it's no good for tripping. You can use it for tripping, but if you have to drop it, you lose your threatned squares. It's really not that great, it just has an edge over conventional weapons, like other exotic weapons.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

There is a simple reason that the spiked chain is too good: the exotic weapon master prestige class. The flurry of blows ability gives a spiked chain wielder an extra attack which scores full two handed power attack damage and that wielders of other weapons cannot duplicate.

How to fix it?
1. Ban the exotic weapon master prestige class
2. Open it up to non-exotic weapons and let flurry of blows work with anything.

Absent the exotic weapon master prestige class, the spiked chain is a silly weapon that gives you marginally more flexibility than the alternatives at the cost of a feat and marginally reduced offensive ability.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

I spoke to Jonathan Tweet at GenCon one year over breakfast, and he told me the spiked chain was his addition to the rules, and that he considered it hands-down the best weapon in the game. (He considered the greatsword to be second-best.) I didn't really ask him if he thought it was "too good," though.

Personally, I see -- and am guilty of -- much more cheese with the greatsword. Not that you can't get cheesy with the spiked chain, but it just doesn't seem as acceptable as greatsword-cheese somehow, so nobody does it in our group.

 

[Kerrick]

Hmm. I always hear people complain that the spiked chain is far and away the best weapon in the game, that it's overpowered, blah blah blah... I'm thinking about removing the Finesse component because it weighs 10 pounds, far more than any other finessable weapon.

Question: is a monk build with a spiked chain (we'll say pure monk) overpowered? I mean, core rules only... can it be too much?

 

[Jack Simth]

Hmm. I always hear people complain that the spiked chain is far and away the best weapon in the game, that it's overpowered, blah blah blah... I'm thinking about removing the Finesse component because it weighs 10 pounds, far more than any other finessable weapon.

Question: is a monk build with a spiked chain (we'll say pure monk) overpowered? I mean, core rules only... can it be too much?

1) Monk Builds, especially Core monk builds, generally aren't broken period (except, perhaps, in the "too weak" sense).
2) Monk can't flurry with a Spiked Chain in Core.

So no, not broken for a pure Core monk.

 

[frankthedm]

What makes the spike chain too good is 'threatening reach', as 4E would describe it.

Simply rule that the Spiked Chain works much like a whip's reach, you can melee attack at a distance, can strike adjacent, but no extra 'AoO threatened area' beyond what you have coming for your size. If you want to throw the chain a bone after this, allow some of the following

Strike out to 15' [as whip] (Double natural reach +5')
Also can be used as a non reach double weapon.
Also can be used as a grapnel
Damage Type can be switched to 'Bludgeoning'.
Can take advantage of whatever 'garroting' rules the campaign uses.

 

[Hawken]

Regarding the OP:

I would make the following changes:

1) On a successful Trip attack, the weapon inflicts 1d4 damage (no bonuses or extra damage since you're not making an "attack"). --A spiked anything wrapping around someone's leg or striking someone's leg with enough force to sweep is going to hurt.

2) No bonus damage for 2-H weapon from Str, just keep it at X1. --Just because you have to hold the thing with two hands doesn't mean you're putting the power of two hands into the swing.

All the illustrations I've seen show one hand stabilizing or controlling the chain while the other throws or aims it. To me, that makes it a "one handed weapon that you have to hold in 2 hands", just like a bow. You have to use two hands to operate a bow, but you don't get X1.5 Str for damage with it, same principal.

3) I would not allow it to "break" a charge. If someone is charging, sure, AoO as normal, but I would have an exception to this weapon that unless it is used to Trip the person charging it is not going to stop a charge. Or rule that if the attack is successful, the charging person is knocked to either side of the chain wielder.

4) Change the threat range from "double" to "extends threat range by +5'". This prevents excess and potential for abuse from Enlarge effects and similar situations. If an effect, such as Enlarge, doubles threat range, fine. Your range is doubled, (from 5' to 10' for a Med going to Lg), then using the spiked chain increases that by an extra 5'; so, 15' threat range.