D&D General Why is tradition (in D&D) important to you? [+]

[Lanefan]

But, that's true of every edition. 2e was developed because AD&D sales were in the toilet.

2e was developed in the form it took in response to the Satanic panic. Without that, I suspect it would have been just a cleaned-up 1e.

3.5 was always planned, although it came out earlier than expected, simply because of the market.

There's a very, very good reason we haven't gotten a 6e yet and it has nothing to do with how good the ruleset is and everything to do with the fact that it's still selling. No one ever makes a new edition of any game for any other reason than bottom line.

This idea that we "used" to get new editions as a way to make the game better, but, now it's just cash grab is simply not true.

3e is the only edition that in my eyes was specifically done as an attempt to make the game better. We can argue all day about whether it succeeded, but the intentions were good.

 

[payn]

All this talk about stats reminds me of PF2 launching. They kept stats around for tradition sake, but monster stat blocks are only modifiers. I.E. Str 4, Dex 1, Con 2, Int 0, Wis 0, Cha 0

A poster was complaining that that just didn't tell him how strong a monster was. For them, seeing an 18 in Str means "real strong" and seeing Str 4 didn't translate the feeling.

 

[Maxperson]

All this talk about stats reminds me of PF2 launching. They kept stats around for tradition sake, but monster stat blocks are only modifiers. I.E. Str 4, Dex 1, Con 2, Int 0, Wis 0, Cha 0

A poster was complaining that that just didn't tell him how strong a monster was. For them, seeing an 18 in Str means "real strong" and seeing Str 4 didn't translate the feeling.

The more I hear about PF2, the less I ever want to play it.

 

[Malmuria]

I've noticed this come up in a number of discussions lately. Tradition in D&D is something I find really interesting. Sometimes, when changes are being made to D&D, one of the common arguments against change is the valuing of Tradition. For example, some folks may argue that Wizards of the Coast shouldn't change the name of something, stop using a rule, or publish a new setting instead of an old one because of Tradition.

For me, there are a few traditions that I think help define D&D, even if they don't make much sense. The six ability scores are a good example of this; if D&D were created now I doubt they would use such ambiguous names that can often define the same things, such as Intelligence and Wisdom. But without those six ability scores, D&D just doesn't feel like D&D.

On the other hand, tradition really doesn't hold much sway over me. Though I've been playing since 2e, I've really enjoyed seeing play restrictions (such as race/class restrictions, multiclass restrictions, etc) go by the wayside. I find changes really invigorating. And I've always used homebrewed campaign settings.

So I'm curious about those of you who really value Tradition in D&D. Why is it important to you? What value does it have?

Please keep in mind this is a + Thread. I honestly expect to disagree with a lot of folks who post here, but I'm not going to post those disagreements. Instead, I want to know more about perspectives that are different than mine!

I have enjoy "dnd-isms" as a set of in-jokes. Part of this is nostalgia for how we used to play when we were kids, and part of it is corny meta-level references. I think the Order of the Stick comic captures the way I like to interact with dnd "tradition" quite nicely.

 

[billd91]

I honestly think that is one of the traditions that makes me scratch my head the most... 3/5 of the 50 years attributes went from 3-18, and we keep those for tradition... and 18 Int Wizard sounds traditional. Having a 18 Dex rogue or thief does too, but the 18/00 str fighter went away after 2e.

if we really are 99% of the time counting -1 through +5 with out liers being -2 or +6, +7,+8 (belt of giant str) why do we need the 3-18 scale? tradition.

I mean you can even generate by rolling 7d6 drop the lowest take a -2 to each die assign die to stat...so it's not like we NEED 3d6.

Why keep the 3-18? Because there are players who still roll stats. And rolling a straight d6-2 for the individual stat modifier generates the wrong distribution.

 

[Lanefan]

how can you separate ANY item for sale from it's need to make money...

I mean is there ANY reason to put out ANY rpg if you don't want to sell it for money?

Sure there is. Just like with rock bands putting out albums that aren't expected to sell much.

It's the contrast between a money-first approach (write songs that market research shows will likely sell big) and a more artistic approach of simply writing good songs and having any money they bring in be a pleasant side effect.

 

[Scribe]

The more I hear about PF2, the less I ever want to play it.

I think I feel the same. PF still pulls at me because of its proximity to 3.5, but PF2, seems too divergent.

 

[HammerMan]

Sure there is. Just like with rock bands putting out albums that aren't expected to sell much.

It's the contrast between a money-first approach (write songs that market research shows will likely sell big) and a more artistic approach of simply writing good songs and having any money they bring in be a pleasant side effect.

if they didn't want it to make money they wouldn't be selling it...

If the 'rock band' was playing in the park for free and giving away there CDs/8tracks/tapes...what do they do put singles out for format now? then sure... but if they write the songs, then sing them for money and sell the record (or what ever) for money...they are doing it to make money.

 

[HammerMan]

Why keep the 3-18? Because there are players who still roll stats. And rolling a straight d6-2 for the individual stat modifier generates the wrong distribution.

what makes it wrong? roll 7d6 drop the lowest then apply -2 to all of them and assign where you want... I mean I have seen 100 different stat generating systems (Some don't even use dice but decks of cards) to generate 3-18... what makes 1 right and 1 wrong?

I assume very few people roll 3d6 place them as they get them... a few more roll 3d6 arrange to suit... but I assume most are rolling 4d6 drop the lowest and arrange to suit (I actually got to the point were I assumed with good evidence that a not negligible number where making up there own numbers or rerolling until they got what they wanted)

the answer of course, is exactly what we are talking about TRADITION

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Sure there is. Just like with rock bands putting out albums that aren't expected to sell much.

It's the contrast between a money-first approach (write songs that market research shows will likely sell big) and a more artistic approach of simply writing good songs and having any money they bring in be a pleasant side effect.

In theory yes. But artists who starve to death don't make any art, so it is not unreasonable to pay some attention to the commercial viability.