Spelljammer Why Play Spelljammer Over a Regular Pirate Campaign?


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SkidAce

Legend
Supporter
Have you looked at the DMG rules for firearms? A Renaissance era pistol is 1d10 damage. It is basically a heavy crossbow that only uses one hand, but has shorter range. That "bunch of nobodies" are no worse than a handful of 1st level wizards or town guards. And the wizards d10s scale with level, while the pistol doesn't, because it has the loading property.

Oh, and the pistols have a list price of 250 gp, 3x that heavy crossbow, which nobodies may have issues scraping up. Getting a bunch of nobodies armed with pistols takes thousands of gold pieces.
I though they were talking about the gunpowder problem, i.e. big bada boom! type scenario.
 






Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
An ambush with dozens of barrels of gunpowder being set off isn't big?

I feel like I am repeating myself.

A keg costs 250 GP, and weighs 20 lbs. One dozen kegs is 3000 GP. "Dozens" of kegs is getting to be tens of thousands of GP, and weighs a ton, so isn't mobile in any meaningful sense.

And, as already noted, there's no reason to expect that anyone has such a stockpile. So gathering it isn't easy.

Meanwhile, you have the Necklace of Fireballs, which weighs less than a pound, costs 2000 GP ro so to make. So, I'm not sure I see what the problem is.

For every one of these complaints, we should note: as the GM, you have complete and utter control over the supply of gunpowder the PCs can get. If you don't want them to have it, don't make large amounts available!
 

Lyxen

Great Old One
In the DMG, a keg of gunpowder exploding has a blast radius of 10', DC 12 Dex save, 7d6 damage, and costs 250 gp. It is a small, weak fireball that none of them have proficiency in using safely. So, once they reach 5th level, when they can throw fireballs around anyway, a keg of powder here or there isn't going to be unbalancing.

And that's just ONE barrel, and it costs only 250 gp. Now they can basically get as bit a fireball as they want, especially with 5e where money is plentiful. A 70d6 explosion only costs 2500 gp and is way more powerful than any fireball. Anyone can afford that, whether it's the PCs or actually the various powers in the world.

It's not only the PCs getting it (although you can be sure that some will get creative, with suicide boats full of it, people using dimension door to get out, etc.), it's the logic of the world that changes.

And I'm not even getting into the point that this is technology and, by all accounts, it evolves rapidly. Flintlocks are fine, but automatic firearms are not that difficult to conceive, it's only a bit of mechanics.

I know there are ways to control this as a DM, but the simplest of control is just not to allow it.
 


And that's just ONE barrel, and it costs only 250 gp. Now they can basically get as bit a fireball as they want, especially with 5e where money is plentiful. A 70d6 explosion only costs 2500 gp and is way more powerful than any fireball. Anyone can afford that, whether it's the PCs or actually the various powers in the world
how many necklaces of fireballs or wands of fireball can 2,500gp buy?
 

Lyxen

Great Old One
how many necklaces of fireballs or wands of fireball can 2,500gp buy?

Exactly 0, or at most one if very lucky considering the rules published later. Moreover, even if you could get your hands on them, there are many limitations to their use (in particular wands. requires attunement by a Spellcaster).
 

Quickleaf

Legend
This is an entirely reasonable question, and I am shocked that more of us aren't taking it seriously.

I, for one, know that my answer is driven by pure logic and has nothing to do with the emotional appeal of space hippos...

xLfEU9w.jpg


Nope. OK, you got me. It's purely emotional.
 

Arilyn

Hero
This is an entirely reasonable question, and I am shocked that more of us aren't taking it seriously.

I, for one, know that my answer is driven by pure logic and has nothing to do with the emotional appeal of space hippos...

xLfEU9w.jpg


Nope. OK, you got me. It's purely emotional.
I'm just imagining Spock's reaction to this appearing on his view screen. Fascinating just doesn't seem to cut it.

That space hippo sure is adorable though.
 

Exactly 0, or at most one if very lucky considering the rules published later.
um... neckless for a rare item looks to give me 1d6+3 beads and cost between 250gp and 2,500gp (so average is 1,375 for 6 beads or about 230gp per bead
Moreover, even if you could get your hands on them, there are many limitations to their use (in particular wands. requires attunement by a Spellcaster).
the Neckless does not require attunment
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
And that's just ONE barrel, and it costs only 250 gp. Now they can basically get as bit a fireball as they want, especially with 5e where money is plentiful. A 70d6 explosion only costs 2500 gp and is way more powerful than any fireball.

Why do you think they add linearly like that, when the Necklace of Fireballs doesn't?

If you want to create the ruling that makes them abusive, I can't stop you, but the rules precedent we do have doesn't work in that manner.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Exactly 0, or at most one if very lucky considering the rules published later.

So, why are there no necklaces that could be bought, but unlimited casks of gunpowder? Who gets to decide that?

As the GM YOU CONTROL the availability. What's the problem?

Moreover, even if you could get your hands on them, there are many limitations to their use (in particular wands. requires attunement by a Spellcaster).

The Necklace of Fireballs does not require attunement.
 

Lyxen

Great Old One
Why do you think they add linearly like that, when the Necklace of Fireballs doesn't?

And why would they not ? The necklace has special rules because it's magic, and note that these rules are specific because if you have two casters cast fireballs at the same instant (but still in sequence because that's the way the system works) using readied actions, the damage cumulates.

If you want to create the ruling that makes them abusive, I can't stop you, but the rules precedent we do have doesn't work in that manner.

There is no rule precedent, this is a specific item rule, that increases the spell level of an item effect, and obviously not applicable to "mundane" items who don't have a level.

So, why are there no necklaces that could be bought, but unlimited casks of gunpowder? Who gets to decide that?

Well, the rules, for once, there are rules about magic items, and there are no rules in the DMG about buying smoke powder when it's available.

Of course, as a DM you can always make some and that's what I've said from the start, I will be cautious and gun/smokepowder is not going to be ubiquitous.

The Necklace of Fireballs does not require attunement.

Which is why I wrote "in particular wands. requires attunement by a Spellcaster"
 



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