Why Shouldn't Martial Characters have powers?

[Raven Crowking]

Just as a side note, TwinBahamut, I agree completely that mystic powers =/= spellcasting, and have modified several classes as a result of that belief. I took a lot of inspiration from Green Ronin's Testament setting, which is excellent in terms of trying to model a world in which gods are actually important, as well as Arcana Evolved and Iron Heroes.

Heck, in my world you can play a fey that can warp reality to make others get lost, and who can turn into an undine (merman-like creature) without any spellcasting at all......

RC

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Got 'em. But, I made 'em prestige classes, like warriors who can turn into bears, multiple types of paladin, etc. I wanted to lay down the main archetypes, and then work in sub-archetypes as well. However, the Totem Warriors (stolen from AE) are a form of mystical warrior and are a core class. I also devised racial levels for all races & subraces (including human variants) in my world, and some allow access to mystical abilities.



This would be fantastic, frankly -- allowing the group to set max level in order to make any world play in whatever style they like. I know this idea's come up before, and I hope that this is exactly what we see in 4e. Or 5e. I can be patient.

RC

Well, I think it is likely that we get in 4e, since they introduced these three "tiers" now. Though it might take 5e to perfect it.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Well, I think it is likely that we get in 4e, since they introduced these three "tiers" now. Though it might take 5e to perfect it.

Yep.

As I said, I don't think it's the warrior-types who are going to be screwed up in this edition. It is the magic-types that have me concerned.

RC

 

[Mercule]

As I said, I don't think it's the warrior-types who are going to be screwed up in this edition. It is the magic-types that have me concerned.

I'm not sure there will be an issue, but I could live with it. I prefer fighters with wizardly sidekicks to the inverse (though, my real preference would be parity).

Otherwise, I'm with you on the 10/20/30 breakdown. My campaigns will almost certainly include some sort of transformative event around 20th level or just before. Something that clearly announces that the PCs have had their horizons expanded and the mystical flash of the epic fighters isn't entirely an outgrowth of skill with blades, but has some resonance attached to it.

Either that, or have the PCs start at 11th level and declare that they have a birthright that makes 11th the new 1st. Either way, the farmboy doesn't start as a 1st level commoner and make it to 30th level wirework without some sort of elusive spark or enlightenment.

In putting it together, this sounds roughly what WotC is intending (the tiers, spark optional). I'm pretty excited about that. It would also seem that extending the spell progression out to level 25+ could be great, if they defer some of the more potent spells. A wizard that can stop time or grant wishes is generally just as far beyond my vision of normal events in my settings as is fairy-prancing fighters.

 

[gizmo33]

If a fighter dedicates himself to his swordfighting as much as a wizard dedicates himself to magic, why shouldn't he be able to take on armies by himself? Why should he not be able to act faster than any mere mortal?

Well, for one, human fighters in DnD *are* mortals. There's no real flavor justification for mortal human fighters having god-like abilities. And they do have super-human physical abilities already in 3E. See for reference - any thread regarding falling damage. Or also consider the fact that there are already threads discussing how a 3E 20th level Barbarian could already kill 1000 normal mooks without breaking a sweat.

I guess being able to kill 100 mooks single handedly just isn't special anymore. I can't wait to see 10th Edition.

3E fighters already act faster than commoners. Way faster. But what earlier could be chalked up to luck or divine intervention will be much more cartoonish once a DnD fighter is capable of whirlwinding his way around the battlefield in 2 rounds like the Tasmanian Devil. I'm assuming that you're not going to decrease hitpoints or BAB increases. So AFAICT this is just about piling more powers onto the existing character. I think there are other/better ways to balance the wizard and fighter.

 

[Patlin]

Low level human fighters are ordinary mortals. Mid level? On par with Batman. High level? Definitely not 'ordinary mortals.'

 

[ZappoHisbane]

I'm assuming that you're not going to decrease hitpoints or BAB increases. So AFAICT this is just about piling more powers onto the existing character. I think there are other/better ways to balance the wizard and fighter.

Part of the balance in 4e will come from the fact that iterative attacks are gone. So in a sense, BAB has been scaled back a fair bit.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Well, for one, human fighters in DnD *are* mortals. There's no real flavor justification for mortal human fighters having god-like abilities. And they do have super-human physical abilities already in 3E. See for reference - any thread regarding falling damage. Or also consider the fact that there are already threads discussing how a 3E 20th level Barbarian could already kill 1000 normal mooks without breaking a sweat.

I guess being able to kill 100 mooks single handedly just isn't special anymore. I can't wait to see 10th Edition.

3E fighters already act faster than commoners. Way faster. But what earlier could be chalked up to luck or divine intervention will be much more cartoonish once a DnD fighter is capable of whirlwinding his way around the battlefield in 2 rounds like the Tasmanian Devil. I'm assuming that you're not going to decrease hitpoints or BAB increases. So AFAICT this is just about piling more powers onto the existing character. I think there are other/better ways to balance the wizard and fighter.

From what we've been told the power curve won't be as steep in 4e, so these things shouldn't occur till later.
4e=kewl powers not more power (or so it would seem).

 

[Zamkaizer]

Well, for one, human fighters in DnD *are* mortals. There's no real flavor justification for mortal human fighters having god-like abilities. And they do have super-human physical abilities already in 3E. See for reference - any thread regarding falling damage. Or also consider the fact that there are already threads discussing how a 3E 20th level Barbarian could already kill 1000 normal mooks without breaking a sweat.

I guess being able to kill 100 mooks single handedly just isn't special anymore. I can't wait to see 10th Edition.

3E fighters already act faster than commoners. Way faster. But what earlier could be chalked up to luck or divine intervention will be much more cartoonish once a DnD fighter is capable of whirlwinding his way around the battlefield in 2 rounds like the Tasmanian Devil. I'm assuming that you're not going to decrease hitpoints or BAB increases. So AFAICT this is just about piling more powers onto the existing character. I think there are other/better ways to balance the wizard and fighter.

Like what?

To make a more substantial post, I agree with the designers decision to make inherent skill a source of supernatural power, as being extraordinarily skilled at things based in reality, like wielding a sword, makes much more sense than being extraordinarily skilled at thing with no basis in reality, like casting a spell. Of course, one might truly believe that magic exists, in which case - to quote Wolfspider - indeed.

 

[hong]

Well, for one, human fighters in DnD *are* mortals.

So are wizards.