3catcircus said:
But you implied that if you are able to play one d20 game, you could play them all with very little work. What happens when, as others have pointed out, you run across M&M, which is a d20 game that did away with classes?
Besides the non-d20, we still have most of the rest, don't we? So I don't have learn it from the ground up, and even not everything but the basics.
Or a game like Midnight where clerical magic has taken on a distinct twist?
You mean the twist that there is no clerical magic (and it's "divine magic" nowadays), at least not for the players (playing an evil character or a legate would throw the whole concept of Midnight overboard)? Or the new system for arcane magic. A simple thing really, and races, classes, feats, skills... are still there, too.
If you want to put words in my mouth, go right ahead - I never said "...you're a (insert expletive here)..." nor did I imply it either. Since you seem to have taken a general observation and applied it to yourself as a personal attack - if the shoe fits...
ROFL!
Well - was AD&D (or any system before d20) unnecessarily complicated?
I don't know about any other systems, nor do I care. But AD&D was unnecessarily complicated. There is elegance in simplicity.
What do you say to that if I were to state that d20 is overly complex and FUDGE is the be-all, end-all of rpg systems?
I'd tell you to go finde a fudge-board to harass people there. Good riddance to you.
Well - how are skills significantly changed, other than allowing you to improve them more than you could with the limited number of NWP points you were allotted in AD&D?
Instead of getting one skill - once ! - every few levels, you now get several skill points every level. The target number is no longer fixed (like the old "Dex -1" or some such), there is no 5% failure chance any more, the TN can be far more than just between 1-20.....
Once again, dice roll vs. target number.
Oh, so we oversimplify things. Then: D&D never changed - all the while you were rolling dice and it had to show a number larger or smaller than a certain other number.
I'll concede that multi-classing was changed, but how many people house-ruled that in AD&D? Many of the changes that came with 3.0 were as a result of house rules that many people adopted over and over again.
We're not talking about AD&D Houserules, but about the stuff as it was written down in the core rules. I haven't played AD&D that much or in too many groups, and those where I did play in used the vanilla system.
How did ability scores change? The tables are nothing more than a graphical layout of whatever formulas were used to come up with ability score bonuses...
Before, you had a chart that gave you your benefits depending on the ability score. This chart was different for every ability score, there was no pattern that could easily be broken down into a formula, and it sometimes differed depending on your class.
Simple question: How many bonus HP do you receive if you have Con 15?
In d20, it is easy: +2 per level (unless the HP system was altered or replaced). This is your con bonus, which is (Con Score - 10)/2.
In AD&D? Depends: You only get bonus HP on lower levels, and the bonus depends on your class and afaik race. All this has to be looked up on a chart.
As far as XP charts - well - that is something I didn't mind them making uniform for all classes - but the fact that the amount of xp needed is so much less is another thing altogether and I don't agree with that.
I don't care what you agree with. Besides, you get less XP for enemies so it evens out.
One can hardly argue that the classes were significantly changed beyond the addition of feats. Fighters still fight, rogues still steal and sneak, paladins still run around like Dudley Do-Right, etc.
The general nature of the classes didn't change (much), but the mechanics: Thief Skills were incorporated into Skills, Weapon Profieciencies are Feats now, Paladins get Spells earlier and cann call their mount now, Rangers get d8 HD now, rogues are now useful in combat, clerics get 0-9th-level spells.......
What are the other unnecessarily complicated things of which you speak?
Can't remember much of 2e, but what I stated above makes up the bulk of the rules. We also have racial restrictions on character level or class choice
Funny - you seem to think I was trolling. How could I be trolling if I've stayed on topic (Why We Love D&D But Hate D20)?
The topic itself is trolling.
I've not personally insulted anyone,
No, you insulted practically all members of these boards, which isn't "personal" at all.
Additionally, how could I "...refrain from using gross spelling erroes or "1337 script?"
Most trolls employ hideous spelling and grammar ("my hat of d02 know no limit")
I happen to be fairly well-educated
Then you know what they say about self-praise....
Frankly, "1337 script" makes the person using it look like a complete moron in the eyes of those not involved in their subculture.
Well, that's what being a troll is all about: Looking like a complete moron.
