Why won't you switch?

[The Little Raven]

Why not do both, just in case?

Ever worn tinfoil? It's effin' hot, especially while dancing a jig.

 

[Kzach]

But I also suspect that there was more general agreement with the warts of 1E/2E, even from the fans of the game, and more general disatisfaction with the game at the time of 2E than there is now. In particular, you could have heard 'badwrongfun' rants from me about 2E back when the edition first came out (I never really moved from 1E), and by the time 3E came out I was no longer playing D&D because I'd been frustrated by various limitations in the 1E/2E shared mechanics. I certainly didn't think of D&D as an industry leader back when 3E was coming out. Virtually noone I knew was playing it. I knew alot of people playing WW games. The bookstores gaming sections were whole rows of green backed WoD books. I knew of alot of people playing Dead Lands, and a guy getting together a CoC: Delta Green game. Heck, I knew about more RIFTS groups than D&D groups at the time. If D&D wasn't dead, it was certainly dying.

I think the most substantive difference this time around is sheer numbers. Not only numbers of players but numbers of voices being heard.

Sure there were boards around to discuss D&D but none, not even this site, was as massive as it, and others, are now as when 3e was first introduced.

I think if you could retroactively survey people about their feelings on 3e before it came out and compared it to a survey now about people's feelings about 4e, that the percentages of those who were dissatisfied with previous editions and those who were happy with previous editions would be roughly the same.

It is too freaking soon for a new edition of D&D.

Well, 3.x is eight years old. How long do you expect them to wait? Personally, I'm in the "can't wait" camp and would've liked to have seen this revision sooner, as are a lot of people.

I am disgusted with what appears to me to be a blatant money-grab by releasing yearly PHB's, DMG's, etc, with classic elements spread among them like bacon bits on a salad as an inducement to buy. As someone else said, "the needs of Wizards' bottom line do not improve the quality of my gaming experience one whit".

This somewhat contradicts your previous statement. If you're upset that they're introducing a new edition then part of that sentiment implies that you're upset you won't be seeing new material for 3.x. But WotC is a company and if they go broke, then you won't be seeing any new material at all.

I think certain realities must be accepted, one of them being that WotC needs to make a profit in order to keep producing content. I guess you could say you don't care if they do or do not produce new content, as you're happy with your current material, but then, would've you gotten your current material if WotC hadn't of said, "2e is tired, let's create and market a new system!"?

 

[Desdichado]

It's clear that WotC has designed 4e with a very specific set of design goals and preferences in mind, and if you don't like those ideas then 4e is probably not for you.

That may well be true, but I don't know that I think it's clear. Nor is it clear exactly what those goals and preferences are. At least not to me.

Saying, "d00d, that's so anime and WoWish" or whatever, and writing the game off seems---at best---premature. We really don't know that much about it.

I'm a bit turned off by what looks like a proliferation of abilities, making the game harder to play and run (as opposed to those who claim that it's been "dumbed down" for the WoW playing kiddies or something) as well as the lack of backwards compatability, since my existing collection is a big part of the reason I like the existing version; I've got so many options I can use.

Other than that, my reasons for not wanting to switch aren't based on previews, but on other things that are completely ancillary. I don't think the previews have been enough to convince me one way or the other, if that was my deciding factor. They've been pretty sparse.

 

[variant]

For me, the tiefling as a race in the PHB is a deal breaker.

 

[The Little Raven]

But there is a difference between making P&P play like online and making a ruleset that is easier to translate into an established successful online model.

Do you know anything about programming games? Because as a professional, I can tell you that simplifying D&D's math would have the opposite effect of making it video-game-ready. It makes it easier for humans to play, which entirely defeats the purpose of having the computer processing it.

 

[Ebon Shar]

For me, the tiefling as a race in the PHB is a deal breaker.

Now why would that be a deal breaker? I've known people who could not stand halflings. They simply choose not to play them. Why does the arbitrary inclusion of a race that you don't like disquality an entire edition of the rules? If you find that 4E is right up your alley, the best thing to happen to D&D since the flumph, would you still refuse to play, or would you simply disallow tieflings in your campaign?

 

[Kzach]

Do you know anything about programming games? Because as a professional, I can tell you that simplifying D&D's math would have the opposite effect of making it video-game-ready. It makes it easier for humans to play, which entirely defeats the purpose of having the computer processing it.

As someone who has been playing WoW for the last three years in a rather addictive fashion, and one of those years as the top rogue in an SSC/TK raiding guild (rogues have a lot of math to crunch), I can vouch for this comment

The math in WoW is so incredibly convoluted that there is no way in Hell you could do a direct correlation to P&P without massive amounts of conversion and simplification.

 

[BryonD]

Do you know anything about programming games? Because as a professional, I can tell you that simplifying D&D's math would have the opposite effect of making it video-game-ready. It makes it easier for humans to play, which entirely defeats the purpose of having the computer processing it.

I'm not a professional game programmer, but yes I do.

But my point has nothing to do with the simplification point. You are blurring two different points on my list. I see common points in how the 4e math "works" and how WoW math "works".

Besides, there is a big difference between "needing" a computer to do it and having it be a good way to work for a MMORPG.

 

[hong]

Actually, I also thought the tieflings were lame at first, until I read the description of the ancient empire of Bael Turath in Worlds & Monsters. That caused me to reimagine them as a devil-consorting eldritch race reminiscent of the Melniboneans, and they instantly swopped from lame to awesome.

I am ditching their tails and horns, however. Good god almighty.

 

[Geron Raveneye]

Wow, now the OP has started second-guessing and cross-questioning the posters as well. I think the thread can be savely labeled "Titanic" now and be left before the icebergs show up.