Wielding a shield and off-hand item

[Saagael]

Got a question that came up recently:

A sorcerer player wants to take light shield proficiency. The issue is that he also has Dual Implement Spellcaster. Player stated that he could still hold an implement in his light shield hand and gain the bonus from DiS.

Now I remember a rule about not getting item properties when you held it along with a shield, but don't remember anything about this situation. I guess the question comes down to: Does holding an implement with a light shield count as wielding it?

 

[BobTheNob]

To be honest Im not sure.

Quite aside Surely your player appreciates that this is trying to have his cake and eat it too...

 

[Saagael]

To be honest Im not sure.

Quite aside Surely your player appreciates that this is trying to have his cake and eat it too...

Yeah... I'm kind of adverse to the idea, since he's already so bloody hard to kill, but I'd like to have a RAW answer to give him (don't like saying no without a good cause).

 

[BobTheNob]

Yeah... I'm kind of adverse to the idea, since he's already so bloody hard to kill, but I'd like to have a RAW answer to give him (don't like saying no without a good cause).

Players handbook, page214
"Light Shield:You need to use your shield hand to weild a light shield properly"

So, he cant hold an implement in his offhand and get any benefit from the shield

 

[Saagael]

Players handbook, page214
"Light Shield:You need to use your shield hand to weild a light shield properly"

So, he cant hold an implement in his offhand and get any benefit from the shield

Okay, thanks. That wasn't showing up in the compendium, and the entry under "Light Shields" wasn't very helpful.

 

[frogged]

Players handbook, page214
"Light Shield:You need to use your shield hand to weild a light shield properly"

So, he cant hold an implement in his offhand and get any benefit from the shield

That's not quite true (though it doesn't change the ultimate answer to the OP's question), and I'm not sure why you decided to cut your rules quote off there...

Light Shield: You need to use your shield hand to wield a light shield properly. You can still use that hand to hold another item, to climb, or the like. However, you can’t use your shield hand to make attacks.

So he can hold items in his shield hand and still gets the benefit of the shield. However, since you can't use that hand to make attacks you can not wield a weapon or implement with it.

 

[BobTheNob]

Sorry, of course. He can HOLD the implement, but cant call on it for its damage bonus at the same time as calling on the shield bonus.

Its like he has to nominate to forgoe his damage bonus from Dual implement to get the shield bonus and vice versa.

Frankly, that feels like a nice compromise

 

[OnlineDM]

The Rules Compendium book says on page 267:

Light Shield: While using a light shield, a creature can use its shield hand for other purposes, such as holding another item or climbing, but the creature can't make attacks with that hand or with anything it is holding in that hand.

So, you can hold the other implement, but I would interpret "can't make attacks" as meaning that you wouldn't get the benefit from Dual Implement Spellcaster:

Both of your implements must be usable with this power, and you must be capable of wielding both implements, to gain this benefit.

I'd say that if you have a shield strapped on, you can hold but not "use" the implement in that same hand; thus, no benefit from DIS.

 

[Akaiku]

What sort of implement chease is the player trying to pull? If not using staff fighting with a rod of ruin, he can use rhythm blade parrying dagger to get the offhand shield bonus, cept better then light sheild. Needs 2 feats, prof parrying dagger and arcane implement prof light blades though Just a normal dagger can be rhythm'd though.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

Alternately, he can take AIP in Rods (or MC into something that grants proficiency), then retrain his Implement Expertise [Dagger] (assuming he has this - sounds like a bit of a powergamer so I'm assuming 'yes'), for the much-improved Rod Expertise, thus gaining a +1 Shield bonus to AC & Ref.

Unless he had Staff Expertise. He probably won't want to give that up. In that case it would cost an extra feat instead of retraining Implement Expertise.