Will DMs Need to Plan the PC Strategy?

[WhatGravitas]

Why?

Simulation and/or verisimilitude. Climbing slippery walls is very hard. Which is why DMs with a focus on story, who don't want to break the verisimilitude, leave a dangling rope with an affixed bucket in the well - because a stupid minion wants to get something to drink. And who is soon going to die. Silently, if possible, hence creating a new challenge for the PCs, i.e. giving the rogue his daily spotlight.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Derren]

4E still includes both utility spells and rituals which don't inflict damage. Things like teleport and invisibility are still in, though at different levels. I know this makes it harder for you to dislike everything about 4E, but there you are.

In a nerfed way. And please quote your PHB what it says about rituals. Compared to 3E the utility spells get nerfed

Why?

Why not?

 

[hong]

Why not?

You first.

So, why?

 

[Derren]

You first.

So, why?

Because the walls, as described, would be hard to climb?
Of course you can change the reality based on what the PCs can do but see point 3.

Your turn.

 

[hong]

Because the walls, as described, would be hard to climb?

Why?

 

[Praeden]

In a nerfed way. And please quote your PHB what it says about rituals.

I don't think my 4E PHB is the same as your 4E PHB. Mine contains non-damaging spells, whereas yours apparently says they've all been banned. I'd consider taking it back.

Compared to 3E the utility spells get nerfed

Very interesting. Let's take 5th-6th level characters as an example. Tell how 4E utility spells have been nerfed compared to 3E.

 

[Derren]

Why?

As I said, its your turn now.

Very interesting. Let's take 5th-6th level characters as an example. Tell how 4E utility spells have been nerfed compared to 3E.

3E invisibility

Invisibility
Illusion (Glamer)
Level: Brd 2, Sor/Wiz 2, Trickery 2
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal or touch
Target: You or a creature or object weighing no more than 100 lb./level
Duration: 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless) or Will negates (harmless, object)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless) or Yes (harmless, object)

4E invisibility.

Greater Invisibility Wizard Utility 16
'With a wave of your hand, you or another creature nearby fades away, becoming invisible'
Daily * Arcane, Illusion
Standard Action Ranged 20
Target: You or one creature
Effect: The target is invisible until the end of your next turn. If the target attacks, the target becomes visible.
Sustain Minor: If the target is within range, you can sustain the effect.

3E fly

Fly
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 3, Travel 3
Components: V, S, F/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 1 min./level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

4E fly

Fly Wizard Utility 16
'You leap into the air and don't look back.'
Daily * Arcane
Standard Action Personal
Effect: You gain a speed of fly 8 until the end of your next turn.
Sustain Minor: You can sustain this power until the end of the encounter or for 5 minutes. If you don't sustain it, you float to the ground without taking falling damage.

Oh my, the 4E versions of those spells look a lot weaker to me. What a surprise.

 

[hong]

As I said, its your turn now.

No, no. You still have not said why the walls must somehow be hard to climb.

So, why?

 

[Praeden]

3E invisibility

Invisibility
Illusion (Glamer)
Level: Brd 2, Sor/Wiz 2, Trickery 2
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal or touch
Target: You or a creature or object weighing no more than 100 lb./level
Duration: 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless) or Will negates (harmless, object)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless) or Yes (harmless, object)

4E invisibility.

Greater Invisibility Wizard Utility 16
'With a wave of your hand, you or another creature nearby fades away, becoming invisible'
Daily * Arcane, Illusion
Standard Action Ranged 20
Target: You or one creature
Effect: The target is invisible until the end of your next turn. If the target attacks, the target becomes visible.
Sustain Minor: If the target is within range, you can sustain the effect.

3E fly

Fly
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 3, Travel 3
Components: V, S, F/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 1 min./level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

4E fly

Fly Wizard Utility 16
'You leap into the air and don't look back.'
Daily * Arcane
Standard Action Personal
Effect: You gain a speed of fly 8 until the end of your next turn.
Sustain Minor: You can sustain this power until the end of the encounter or for 5 minutes. If you don't sustain it, you float to the ground without taking falling damage.

Oh my, the 4E versions of those spells look a lot weaker to me. What a surprise.

Ummm, you don't seem to have understood my request.

I didn't say compare spells with the same name. I said take 5-6th level characters in 3E and 4E, look at the utility spells available to them, and compare them.

 

[Derren]

Ummm, you don't seem to have understood my request.

I didn't say compare spells with the same name. I said take 5-6th level characters in 3E and 4E, look at the utility spells available to them, and compare them.

3E characters have fly and invisibility for example.