Will there be a 4.75 a la Pathfinder?

[Quickleaf]

Why clone 4e? WotC is still printing and selling 4e.

To clarify: I'm curious what 4e fans would consider an improvement of 4e.

I outlined a whole slew of improvements over here: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?353104-A-Dark-High-Fantasy-RPG

True the context is for a radical reimagining using the 4e skeleton, but if you click the spoiler tag in the first post you'll see a point by point breakdown of problems with 4e I was trying to address.

One of the notable bad things I noticed about 4e, for instance, is "brain drain"/"power card mentality" where so much is finely detailed about the PCs' capacities that it squashes creativity for certain player types.

Many, many other improvements that's I get into.

IMHO 4e has a very robust core, but it's sort of like the little chick whose wings never got to fully develop and stretch out. So much more can be done with its chassis. I generally see it as a progression of development from 3e > Star Wars Saga > 4e > Essentials/Gamma World. By the time my group stopped playing 4e (babies were born ), I was doing things with the skill challenge system & monster design that were way outside the box. Personally, 4e taught me quite a lot about game design and the ripple effect.

 

[Scrivener of Doom]

(snip) Personally, 4e taught me quite a lot about game design and the ripple effect.

I have to agree with this. I also find as a corollary to this that I have a much greater appreciation for the mechanics in certain other games as well.

 

[fjw70]

I would love to see 4e's power system rebuilt as something like a stunt point system. So an at-will attack does 1[W] and gives you access to 1 stunt point, an encounter power does 2[W] and gives you access to two stunt points, and a daily does 3[W] gives you access to three stunt points. Then different maneuvers cost different amount of stunt points, and the lists and costs of stunts could be tied to class. This way a relatively small number of stunts could be combined into a large number stunt combos.

Also, the elimination of 1/2 level, feat, and enhancement bonuses and stat increases then all of that rolled into +1 per level bonus to attacks, defenses, and skills.

 

[C4]

I began thinking this sometime before the starter set for 5th Edition was released. Now that 4th Edition is officially done, would history repeat itself and people begin to create their own version of it like how Paizo did Pathfinder?

I don't think that a 4.75 is legally possible on the commercial scale that Paizo has made possible for PF.

However, I am writing my own legal 4e clone in pdf form that'll be totally free once it's completed! I'm hoping that my clone -- which I'm calling Points of Light -- will inspire other fans to write adventures and additional character options for it. They of course will be free to sell their material.

There are is at least one person who has been working on it.

Curious to see if they post here.

Howdy, TerraDave! Don't know if you're thinking of me, but I do love your title -- I'm feeling very 4ognardy myself.

 

[Bormun]

One nice 4E clone i've seen is "Complete 4th". (sorry, I don't have a link)

The author has strong views on what could be improved - don't we all - but he made the effort to avoid putting any of them into this clone. (He is working on another system for all his own ideas.)

The result is, that Complete 4th is very very true to 4E, with just "tidying up" of feats, class features, spells, errata, etc.

 

[C4]

I think there is far less uniformity of purpose within the 4e community than existed when Pathfinder became a force within the game industry where most fans really wanted a straight continuation of 3.5. From where I stand there is a lot of interest in a spiritual successor to 4e, but that interest goes in some pretty different directions. When this topic first came up at rpg.net a few years ago there was a lot of debate as to what form a 4.75 should take. Fans disagree on the role of feats, what form classes should take, how much of an emphasis should be placed on the game's thematic content, etc.

Indeed, and that's the rub!

Everyone seems to have a slightly different idea of what a 4e clone should be. I've been told that my clone-in-progess 'doesn't feel like 4e,' even though from my view it's a logical extension of 4e. On the other hand, every time I pose a design question to the 4e community -- most recently "Is the class vs. non-class skill distinction worth keeping?" -- there are always fans who suggest changes much more radical than even I'm willing to make.

I think it's great that fans have diverse opinions -- even PF fans vary quite a bit in attitude and hopes -- but it also means that a lot of 4e fans will look at any given clone and think "Ugh, not for me!"

 

[TerraDave]

...

Howdy, TerraDave! Don't know if you're thinking of me, but I do love your title -- I'm feeling very 4ognardy myself.

You were the one.

In terms of the title, I am a few weeks away from my last 4E session, and moving on, but its been a good run.

 

[C4]

One nice 4E clone i've seen is "Complete 4th". (sorry, I don't have a link)

The author has strong views on what could be improved - don't we all - but he made the effort to avoid putting any of them into this clone. (He is working on another system for all his own ideas.)

The result is, that Complete 4th is very very true to 4E, with just "tidying up" of feats, class features, spells, errata, etc.

Here is the link to my ENworld Complete 4th thread, and I'll be happy to send anyone links to the actual google doc pdfs via PM.

 

[Scrivener of Doom]

I would love to see 4e's power system rebuilt as something like a stunt point system. So an at-will attack does 1[W] and gives you access to 1 stunt point, an encounter power does 2[W] and gives you access to two stunt points, and a daily does 3[W] gives you access to three stunt points. Then different maneuvers cost different amount of stunt points, and the lists and costs of stunts could be tied to class. This way a relatively small number of stunts could be combined into a large number stunt combos. (snip)

On a related note, Dragon Age by Green Ronin has a really cool point mechanic triggered by rolling doubles or triples (IIRC) as it uses 3d6 instead of a d20. It might be worth a look at for more ideas (I haven't read it but am going off what I saw in the Tabletop episode where Dragon Age was featured). Note to self: buy the PDFs and give it a read.

 

[Mercurius]

I think the elephant in the room is that 4th edition doesn't quite have the diehard fanbase that 3.5 had, and is not as beloved by the D&D community as a whole. This is not a criticism of 4E as a game, nor am I saying that 4E doesn't have diehards - just not to the extent that 3.5 did (and does, via Pathfinder).

That said, I think we're going to see a handful of fan-made stuff put out, e.g. [MENTION=93857]C4[/MENTION]. Now whether any of these gains traction--or to what degree they do--remains to be seen. But I highly doubt we'll see anything like Pathfinder.