D&D 5E Wish: additional 9th level slot

[MarkB]

Just thought of a cute way to corrupt the "multiple wishes" wish.

Player: I cast wish.
DM: What do you wish for?
Player A: Infinite wishes!
DM: The magic courses through you, changing the fabric of reality... and a scroll appears before you.
Player A: I pick it up.
DM: As soon as you pick it up, you find yourself compelled to unfurl the scroll. It is a scroll of Wish. Without hesitation, you begin reading the magic words. The scroll bursts into magical flame. Magic courses through you, changing the fabric of reality... and your lips, of their own accord, mouth the words: "I wish for another wish." and a scroll appears before you.
Player A: uh... I pick it up?
DM: As before, you are compelled to read the scroll, and as before, you are compelled to wish for another wish. A scroll appears before you.
Player B: Wait, I got this... I pick it up!
DM: aha! You feel compelled to read the scroll. Despite your complete lack of magical knowledge, you find yourself going through the motions of casting a spell. It works! Your lips continue of their own accord. "I wish Player A had another wish!" A scroll appears before player A.

Either that, or a time loop.

Or you literally have infinite wishes. Every time you express even the slightest inclination or desire, it is granted in the most lavishly extravagant way possible, with utter disregard to consequences.

 

[Todd Roybark]

What if the player wished for, say, two extra spell slots for each level

I cast Wish once in 2e, and asked to double my spell slots. My DM allowed it, though with a huge caveat. Every bonus spell slot used, required me to roll a System Shock Death check, with a chance of failure equal to the Level of the spell times 10%.

It was a very effective ruling.

Now, keep in mind, it took me 2 years of real time to be able to have the opportunity to learn Wish. I started the character at 8 years old in 1e, and cast Wish, at 16 years, old as a 19th level Wizard, in 2e.
I was ready to go full Raistlin.

The Wish spell, from a role play perspective, is the ultimate way to directly impact the Narrative.
A person driven by Narrative concerns, not power gamer plans, might ask for a powerful effect once and never again.

 

[Todd Roybark]

@Ashrym and others, when duplicating an 8th level spell or lower, would you allow a player to add effects from another class?

Would you allow a healing spell duplicated, (by the Wish spell) , to have an effect as if cast by a Cleric of Life, for example?

What about with Metamagic effects the character does not posses?

I think an argument can be made, that the subset: any spell,(by definition), includes: a particular spell.

A Maximum damage Delayed Blast Fireball cast from a 9th level slot via Wish, falls under “any spell”.

From the Wish Spell description:
The basic use of this spell is to duplicate any other spell of 8th level or lower.

 

[Fanaelialae]

@Ashrym and others, when duplicating an 8th level spell or lower, would you allow a player to add effects from another class?

Would you allow a healing spell duplicated, (by the Wish spell) , to have an effect as if cast by a Cleric of Life, for example?

What about with Metamagic effects the character does not posses?

I think an argument can be made, that the subset: any spell,(by definition), includes: a particular spell.

A Maximum damage Delayed Blast Fireball cast from a 9th level slot via Wish, falls under “any spell”.

From the Wish Spell description:
The basic use of this spell is to duplicate any other spell of 8th level or lower.

I would say that such a use is possible, but nonstandard. Although I do allow any spell to be cast as an 8th level spell (using an 8th level slot) without incurring the nonstandard wish penalties, since it's right there in the basic description. Applying things like metamagic or other class features that you don't have is not in the description.

A delayed blast fireball falls under any spell. Casting it as an 8th (but not 9th) level spell is part of the basic description. Maximum damage is beyond the basic use, as it is not any 8th level spell but rather a feature that modifies the effect of a spell.

Otherwise, casting delayed blast fireball using a millionth level slot and every metamagic in the book would constitute a basic use. As would me scribbling anything down on a napkin, writing 8th level spell on top, and then expecting it to be allowed as a basic use. It is clear to me that such use was never intended.

The PHB was written using natural language (as opposed to as a legal document) in order to make it easy to read, not as an invitation to twist and abuse the rules. Wish is already the most versatile effect in the entire game. It doesn't need to be (and moreover should not be) both the most versatile and the most powerful. If someone tried to pull this at my table I would take a very dim view of it.

 

[Coroc]

@Ashrym and others, when duplicating an 8th level spell or lower, would you allow a player to add effects from another class?

Would you allow a healing spell duplicated, (by the Wish spell) , to have an effect as if cast by a Cleric of Life, for example?

What about with Metamagic effects the character does not posses?

I think an argument can be made, that the subset: any spell,(by definition), includes: a particular spell.

A Maximum damage Delayed Blast Fireball cast from a 9th level slot via Wish, falls under “any spell”.

From the Wish Spell description:
The basic use of this spell is to duplicate any other spell of 8th level or lower.

All of what you wrote above is a fair trade for a 9th level slot. Keep in mind though that here the purpose is rather to (once) cast an unknown (only known by name) spell / use a metamagic which is not in the wizards spellbook.

Means, I need the emergency resurrection or an elemental energy type which hi do not have.
But for your delayed fireball example (or other scaleable spells), with your wish you could only upcast to 8th level no matter if you do have the spell in your spellbook or not. So if you have it, it would be wiser to directly cast it using your 9th level slot.

 

[jasper]

What would be your ruling if a Wizard wished to have an additional 9th level slot?

Jasper sets down his dice and closes his screen, "Why are asking this ? " AKA ask the player who is running the wizard, why does he think his pc needs/must have an additional spell slot.
Now if this a white room question, then no. Reason I what to handle the additional DM workload of balancing the adventure encounters.

 

[Todd Roybark]

Interesting. I do not read this:
“The basic use of this spell is to duplicate any other spell of 8th level or lower.”
.....To mean that the spell slot is capped at 8th level.

An 8th level spell is different than a 8th level spell slot.

The clause, quoted above, eliminates the ability of the Wish Spell to duplicate other 9th level spells. A DM could allow, (if they so, chose to), Wish to duplicate a 9th level spell, subject to the dangerous effects rider described at the end of the spell descriptive text.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Interesting. I do not read this:
“The basic use of this spell is to duplicate any other spell of 8th level or lower.”
.....To mean that the spell slot is capped at 8th level.

An 8th level spell is different than a 8th level spell slot.

The clause, quoted above, eliminates the ability of the Wish Spell to duplicate other 9th level spells. A DM could allow, (if they so, chose to), Wish to duplicate a 9th level spell, subject to the dangerous effects rider described at the end of the spell.

I'm AFB but I'm 99.9% certain that the PHB makes clear that a spell is of the level of the slot used to cast it. In other words, if you cast magic missile using a 9th level spell slot, it is considered a 9th level spell for all intents and purposes.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

I seem to remember there was a Sage Advice saying upcast was limited to an 8th level slot. You're duplicating the effect of an 8th level spell of your choice, it could be either an 8th level spell or a Magic Missile upcast in an 8th level slot (which would be 8th level as you pointed out).

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

I'm AFB but I'm 99.9% certain that the PHB makes clear that a spell is of the level of the slot used to cast it. In other words, if you cast magic missile using a 9th level spell slot, it is considered a 9th level spell for all intents and purposes.

Yep:

Casting a Spell at a Higher Level
When a spellcaster casts a spell using a slot that is of a higher level than the spell, the spell assumes the higher level for that casting. For instance, if Umara casts magic missile using one of her 2nd-level slots, that magic missile is 2nd level. Effectively, the spell expands to fill the slot it is put into.