D&D (2024) Wizard (Playtest 7)

[Neonchameleon]

I'm finding it interesting how much less discussion there is here (even if we include the Memorize Spell thread) than on literally any of the other subclasses. Not even really people asking for something more interesting.

 

[Kobold Stew]

I didnt notice that the Investigation check would dissipate the illusion "for others". That is interesting. So the Investigation check is more like using a Slight Of Hand check to "disarm" a trap.

Even this isn't clear, however.

The text of minor illusion says:

If a creature uses its action to examine the sound or image, the creature can determine that it is an illusion with a successful Intelligence (Investigation) check against your spell save DC. If a creature discerns the illusion for what it is, the illusion becomes faint to the creature.

Is the creature in the second sentence the one who has just determined it's an illusion in the previous one? Or can it be someone that person tells? (another way to frame the distinction: is me saying something is an illusion allowing you to "discern" it?).

Short of "physical interaction" ("Physical interaction with the image reveals it to be an illusion, because things can pass through it."), which apparently does dissipate the illusion for others, I'm not sure it's clear. I think the creature in the second sentence quoted above has to be (by common sense reading) the first one who has successfully investigated it. Others will disagree.

 

[Kobold Stew]

Another way to ask the question: how many actions of an opponent should a single casting of a cantrip disrupt? If it reliably disrupts one action, and sometimes more, that seems to me appropriate for a cantrip. If it mean an entire band of opponents lose their action, then it's too much.

 

[Kobold Stew]

I don't think its all that tough to be honest. Again we don't need every illusionary instance to be hammered out, just some clear guidelines:

• What are some general ways a person might "interact" with an illusion?
• At what point does a person get to "interact" with an illusion? When they do, what kind of check or save do they get?
  • Does this change depending on when/where the caster makes the illusion? (aka in combat versus the illusion was there when the party arrives).
  • Can a person attempt multiple times to "disbelieve". If so, what conditions allow for another attempt?
• What does informing a person that something is an illusion do....auto check, auto pass, nothing at all?
• When an illusion is disbelieved, do I see clearly through it? (aka the classic illusionary wall scenario, can people that know its an illusion see through it and attack, whereas people that haven't can't see through it). Can I still tell what the illusion is doing, or does it just vanish from my senses?
• Can an illusion of light create light? (a commonly asked question), or would a person automatically see through this because it doesn't actually illuminate?
• If your making an illusion that talks, are any skill checks required to make the illusion pass as "believable".

If you answered that list, it would cover a LOT of illusionary scenarios, but still give teh illusionist plenty of freedom to create various things.

These are good questions -- thanks. I am not convinced it's as straightforward as you suggest, but I'd love it to be so. I have my answers to them, but if the book answered them differently, that'd be fine.

 

[Kobold Stew]

My take:

- If a monster's passive beats the illusion's DC, it is automatically known as an illusion. They still have to take an action to reveal and dissipate the illusion for others, but they will ignore it themselves.

- A monster whose passive dont beat the DC will believe the illusion is true. Now, the creature can get suspicious if the illusion dont match the context or setting; it is now more of a roleplay thing based on the creature's intelligence. A suspicious creature will take their action to investigate and disbelieve the illusion.

- A creature who is aware of the illusion, but did not dissipate it with an action is still impacted by the illusion if it interacts with sight line and covers.

I think we are mostly on the same page here.

 

[Yaarel]

Even this isn't clear, however.

The text of minor illusion says:


Is the creature in the second sentence the one who has just determined it's an illusion in the previous one? Or can it be someone that person tells? (another way to frame the distinction: is me saying something is an illusion allowing you to "discern" it?).

The wording of Minor Illusion seems to have the translucentizing only apply to the creature whose Investigation succeeds.

But I like the idea of the Investigation "disarming" the illusion for everyone. It seems clearer ruleswise.

Short of "physical interaction" ("Physical interaction with the image reveals it to be an illusion, because things can pass through it."), which apparently does dissipate the illusion for others, I'm not sure it's clear. I think the creature in the second sentence quoted above has to be (by common sense reading) the first one who has successfully investigated it. Others will disagree.

The "physical interaction" applies to manipulations of light − namely "images". But it wouldnt apply to force constructs, namely illusions that have tactile characteristics. Things wouldnt be able to "pass through it".



The current rules are unclear and problematic.

Lets focus on what good rules for all illusions would look like. Something like.

• The appearance of an illusion is convincing − always looks real and can shine dim light.
• One gains a Passive Investigation check each time one enters within 10 feet of it.
• Succeeding on a Passive Investigation check, means suspicious.
• Warning an ally, automatically grants suspicion.
• It nevertheless requires an action to "disable" an illusion.

 

[WanderingMystic]

This is also how the modify illusion ability (9r what ever it is called) helps. Your friend successfully notices that the wall is an illusion so in tower to show everyone that it is he passes his sword through the wall. The illusionist on the other hand shows his sword clashing against the stone wall and not passing through since he can change his illusion.

 

[Horwath]

Re the Minor Illusion cantrip.

Its area of effect is awkward, a 5-foot cube. I prefer a space that is 5x5 and 10 feet tall, or perhaps a cylinder that is 5-foot diameter and 10 feet tall.

A 5-foot cube is large enough to fit an image of Human − but typically not one who is standing up. To make the spell less awkward I would prefer the spell area be tall enough without having to be weird about the position of the image.

then just rule that volume is 125 cu ft shapeable and no single dimension is larger than 10ft and whole illusion must be in one piece.

 

[Yaarel]

then just rule that volume is 125 cu ft shapeable and no single dimension is larger than 10ft and whole illusion must be in one piece.

That is kinda how I waive it. I interpret the 5-foot cube to refer to volume, not length. But I prefer the spell description to update to make it clear that the Minor Illusion can normally illude a Humanoid image.

 

[homunculus23]

Is it me, or is the Wizard now the only one who can cast spells as a ritual?
I don't see it in the Soceror or Warlock classes now. Sorcerors were able to in 2014.
I think this is a great change, however!! A wizard with years of practice is the only class that can take time to cast a ritual without a spell slot, while ones only born with it and no study, or those gifted it to them without study, cannot. Great advantage for the wizard