D&D (2024) Wizard (Playtest 7)

[Yaarel]

Yes, that feat is much MUCH weaker than portent. By a mile. Portent is often pushing an I WIN button. Advantage is just roughly a +5 bonus.

Portent is as good as the two rolls. Rolling two 10s would be less useful.

The Lucky advantage/disadvantage only happens when needed, making it valuable. Moreover, at proficiency times per day, Lucky happens several times at higher levels.

All in all, the Wizard subclass remains surprisingly subpar.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

Mire likely the next supplement.

I agree that there will likely be another supplement that updates lots of older subclasses and player options. That is where we'd see the updated Conjurer, Enchanter, Necromancer, Transmuter, and other subclasses that deserve an update.

In fact, 8 subclasses per class would be great! Update all the old stuff and fill in the blanks with new stuff.

That said, I doubt it will be the next release after the 2024 books come out. Give it a couple years before they need a new BIG CRUNCHY BOOK to get everyone's attention again. They could plan a big UA effort leading up to it as well for player insight and marketing purposes. UA is a multi-purpose tool.

 

[Mort]

Double post

 

[Mort]

Compare a feat that is available to a level 1 character (and actually gained at level 0 before taking levels in a class).


LUCKY
1st-Level [Level-0] Feat
Prerequisite: None
Repeatable: No
You have inexplicable luck that can kick in at just the right moment, granting you the following benefits:
Luck Points. You have a number of Luck Points equal to your Proficiency Bonus. You can spend the points on the benefits below, and you regain your expended Luck Points when you finish a Long Rest.
Advantage. Immediately after you roll a d20 for a d20 Test, you can spend 1 Luck Point to give yourself Advantage on the roll.
Disadvantage. When a creature rolls a d20 for an attack roll against you, you can spend 1 Luck Point to impose Disadvantage on that roll.


This level-0 feat by itself seems better than the entire design space for a Wizard subclass.

Already stated by @Stalker0 but I'll also respond.

1. Lucky is considered in the top tier of feats, so a class ability mimicking it wouldn't actually be too bad; that said

1. Lucky only affects rolls that center on the person with the feat. Portent affects rolls against anyone;

2. Lucky gives you advantage on a roll - not bad. But Portent allows you to DICTATE the roll. You are 100% certain what the die will bring.

Depending on the rolls by the Diviner he can guarantee a hit or a miss, he can guarantee a made or failed saving throw. And if he got lucky, he might even be able to guarantee a crit.

Heck Treantmonk, who LOVES wizards and is pretty stingy with high praise, high rankings - ranked it among the best of the subclasses:

 

[Parmandur]

I agree that there will likely be another supplement that updates lots of older subclasses and player options. That is where we'd see the updated Conjurer, Enchanter, Necromancer, Transmuter, and other subclasses that deserve an update.

In fact, 8 subclasses per class would be great! Update all the old stuff and fill in the blanks with new stuff.

That said, I doubt it will be the next release after the 2024 books come out. Give it a couple years before they need a new BIG CRUNCHY BOOK to get everyone's attention again. They could plan a big UA effort leading up to it as well for player insight and marketing purposes. UA is a multi-purpose tool.

Oh, the next Xanathar's or Tasha's I would expect ~2027. In the meantime, the 2014 Necromancer will work with the new base Class.

 

[Yaarel]

Already stated by @Stalker0 but I'll also respond.

1. Lucky is considered in the top tier of feats, so a class ability mimicking it wouldn't actually be too bad; that said

1. Lucky only affects rolls that center on the person with the feat. Portent affects rolls against anyone;

2. Lucky gives you advantage on a roll - not bad. But Portent allows you to DICTATE the roll. You are 100% certain what the die will bring.

Depending on the rolls by the Diviner he can guarantee a hit or a miss, he can guarantee a made or failed saving throw. And if he got lucky, he might even be able to guarantee a crit.

Heck Treantmonk, who LOVES wizards and is pretty stingy with high praise, high rankings - ranked it among the best of the subclasses:

View attachment 295073

The concern is, the Wizard class lacks enough design space for a subclass.

The Treantmonk ranks are moot, since the Wizard subclasses are comparing to each other, and all of them may suffer from insufficient design space.

That a subclass even can compare to a single level-0 feat is concerning.

 

[Yaarel]

At high levels of a fullcaster class, maybe those too-many low-slot spells can instead be design space for more subclass features?

 

[Parmandur]

The concern is, the Wizard class lacks enough design space for a subclass.

The Treantmonk ranks are moot, since the Wizard subclasses are comparing to each other, and all of them may suffer from insufficient design space.

That a subclass even can compare to a single level-0 feat is concerning.

First, it doesn't compare. Second, as Crawfird said in the video, most design space for the Eizard is tied up in Spells. That's their deal.

 

[Mort]

The concern is, the Wizard class lacks enough design space for a subclass.

The Treantmonk ranks are moot, since the Wizard subclasses are comparing to each other, and all of them may suffer from insufficient design space.

That a subclass even can compare to a single level-0 feat is concerning.

For Treantmonk, The Diviner ranks third highest among ALL the subclasses of all classes not just the Wizard (see note on S ranking).

You're comparing it to one of the top 5e feats (arguably too good) and it's still better than that. Frankly, advantage gets easier and easier to get with level increasing - but certainty? That ranks pretty high, especially at high level where the swingy D20 is still a bane.

(note on the table below: S is not top tier for Treantmonk, it means truly game breaking in a concerning way)

Edit: Also, this is for 5e, not the next edition. Moon druid, for ex, has been pretty nerfed so far - for 1D&D.

 

[Yaarel]

@Mort

The classes have different design spaces for subclasses, including different levels and more and less levels.

Even so, that chart seems a reasonable smell test for rough comparability.