D&D 5E Wizard with 20 CON and the Durable feat

[variant]

Wow. Very poorly written I'd say. I'm not certain what I think yet and could be convinced either way, so I'll wait for official clarification from Wizards. Maybe they'll see the discussion of this popping up everywhere and include an example in their next video of the Phandelver adventure to answer the question, or just post something official somewhere.

It's not poorly written. It's poorly interpreted. Anyone that reads the Short Rest rules should know exactly what the feat means. The problem is, people don't want to go read them.

 

[Thaumaturge]

It's not poorly written. It's poorly interpreted. Anyone that reads the Short Rest rules should know exactly what the feat means. The problem is, people don't want to go read them.

Exactly.

For each Hit Die spent in this way, the player rolls the die and adds the character’s Constitution modifier to it.

Obviously, the "roll" in question is the die. Then the player adds the Con modifier after. Plainly.

Thaumaturge.

 

[TwoSix]

No.

10 is the minimum but if she rolls 6, she'll get 11.

"But why don't you take that hit die and just make it 10, make it heal a little more?"
"Because it goes up to 11."

 

[variant]

Exactly.



Obviously, the "roll" in question is the die. Then the player adds the Con modifier after. Plainly.

Thaumaturge.

The feat says,
"When you roll a Hit Die to regain hit points, the minimum number of hit points you regain from the roll equals twice your Constitution modifer (minimum 2)."


The Short Rests rules says,
"For each Hit Die spent this way, the player rolls the die and adds the character's Constitution modifer to it. The character regains hit points equal to the total."


The number of hit points you regain is the total (both die and modifier), not just the roll. You don't regain the die roll and then the modifier, they are counted together.

 

[Thaumaturge]

The feat says,
"When you roll a Hit Die to regain hit points, the minimum number of hit points you regain from the roll equals twice your Constitution modifer (minimum 2)."


The Short Rests rules says,
"For each Hit Die spent this way, the player rolls the die and adds the character's Constitution modifer to it. The character regains hit points equal to the total."


The number of hit points you regain is the total (both die and modifier), not just the roll. You don't regain the die roll and then the modifier, they are counted together.

Which is a much better response than saying "people don't want to go read [the rules]". I do. I am.

If we want to have fun with bolding:

When you roll a Hit Die to regain hit points, the minimum number of hit points you regain from the roll equals twice your Constitution modifier (minimum 2).

For each Hit Die spent in this way, the player rolls the die and adds the character’s Constitution modifier to it.

In plain English, you don't roll modifiers. You roll dice and add modifiers. The minimum from the roll, therefore, is the minimum from the actual die. Then modifiers are added.

I want to be clear. I'm not certain you're wrong. I'm also not certain you're right.

Thaumaturge.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Anyone want to tweet Mike Mearls for an answer?

This is reminding me of The Order of the Stick - and I'd say that you reroll a dice, with the roll being the entire outcome.

Edit: You roll (verb) dice and add modifiers, and the result of the roll (noun) is the total including the modifiers.

 

[jadrax]

I think we have got side tracked fro the real question raised by the OP.

Which is 'who has rocks fall only do 1d4 damage?!?'

 

[Thaumaturge]

Anyone want to tweet Mike Mearls for an answer?

Already done.

Aaaand, apparently, "dice" is increasingly accepted as both singular and plural. /shudder

Thaumaturge.

 

[The Hitcher]

In plain English, you don't roll modifiers. You roll dice and add modifiers. The minimum from the roll, therefore, is the minimum from the actual die. Then modifiers are added.

I want to be clear. I'm not certain you're wrong. I'm also not certain you're right.

Thaumaturge.

Yeah, I think it would be a lot clearer if they removed "from the roll". The reason I'm sure the intention is "roll + modifiers" is precisely because it avoids the silly situation (that this thread is about) where the Wizard's minimum roll is higher than his maximum roll. That just seems too obvious a broken situation for the designers to have missed. Occam's razor says it's just a poor choice of words, IMO.

 

[Dausuul]

I do find it slightly amusing that a poll about a supposedly poorly written/confusing rule was poorly written and confusing.

Me too. I'd have worded it like this:

When a wizard with 20 Con and the Durable feat rolls a hit die to regain hit points, how many TOTAL hit points does he or she get?

1. Roll 1d6+5. If the total is less than 10, gain 10. Otherwise, gain an amount equal to the total.
2. Always gain 11 (6+5).
3. Always gain 15 (10+5).

I'm tempted to post my own poll, but I expect we'll get the official word from Mearls soon, so not a lot of point. To me, it seems obvious that the intent is option #1, but a strict reading would suggest option #3. I don't see any plausible way to get to option #2 from the written rule--the minimum overrides the number shown on the die, so what does it matter if the number on the die is the highest number the die can roll? Nothing in the text says it cares about the maximum value of the die.

Incidentally, if there is any way to get to a 24 Constitution in the game, we will be having the same debate even if option #1 is the official ruling (because the maximum of 1d6+7 is less than 7x2).