D&D 5E Wizards Do Suck;)

Everyone... make sure you also don't forget to talk about how much Drizzt sucks too! These memes won't stay alive on their own! ;)

Ironically I looked at a 2E Ranger/Druid. They still have to abide by priest weapon selections. Dual scimitar and that killed the concept.
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Got to use this though.
 

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Wizards don't even get full access to their spell list, they get a truncated selection that, if they're lucky, can expand via found scrolls. Even if they had access to all of their spell list, the issue becomes which spells to prepare. People always talk about "why have X class when a wizard can just cast a spell" but if the wizard doesn't have the spell, say knock, prepared then it doesn't count for anything. Add to that the resource cost of expending a spell slot and I'll bet that any wizard would love to have a rogue available to pick any locks the run into.

Wizards gain a lot of power at high level, except those high level spells are once a day, if you only need those spell slots once a day, great, but if you've used your one 9th level spell and then have another encounter where your one 9th level spell prepared would be super useful, too bad.

I like wizards, probably my favourite class in any edition, but people often make out that they are super powerful (in 5e) when instead, they're just powerful, so long as they have spell slots available and maybe a day to prepare that spell that would be really useful to have right this minute.

I've gotten our campaign to 20th level and the biggest complaint of the wizard is that when it's not obviously a "go nova" encounter, she's pretty ineffective compared to the fighter, barbarian and rogue. Yes I threw in an encounter where meteor storm was absolutely critical and they likely wouldn't have survived without it, but I threw it in because I wanted to give her a chance to shine. But outside of those nova spells? Not so much.

I'm playing a wizard now and it's fun in a way, but I definitely feel the limits on options. Not only are scrolls expensive if I could actually find any to buy, but scribing them into my book is also hella expensive. Maybe it's not an issue in other campaigns, definitely has been in games I play.
 

I've gotten our campaign to 20th level and the biggest complaint of the wizard is that when it's not obviously a "go nova" encounter, she's pretty ineffective compared to the fighter, barbarian and rogue. Yes I threw in an encounter where meteor storm was absolutely critical and they likely wouldn't have survived without it, but I threw it in because I wanted to give her a chance to shine. But outside of those nova spells? Not so much.

I'm playing a wizard now and it's fun in a way, but I definitely feel the limits on options. Not only are scrolls expensive if I could actually find any to buy, but scribing them into my book is also hella expensive. Maybe it's not an issue in other campaigns, definitely has been in games I play.

I think the idea is to fill your spell book up with a lot of cheap rituals.

Kinda requires a bit of experience to realize that. And DM/treasure dependent. Most players don't seem to know/bother in my experience.

Kinda like the Eldritch Knight and Arcane trickster. Great classes if you know the perfect spells to pick if you don't......
 

...Absolutely not. That's not rational, it doesn't make sense - in fact it's obviously false - nothing in the world is so bad or weird that some very strange individual doesn't like it. ...
Dude. You're the one arguing that wizards suck, except when I bring up 6 examples of where they've been or are expected to be a blast, you say that of course they're fun...
And yes, no class in 5E sucks so bad it's always unfun, but Wizards have definitely died a death popularity-wise, because style-wise, they've got absolutely nothing. Not an iota of style.
I only talked about some of the experiences I've had running a wizard as a PC. There are all of the other ones where they did not run to 20, and then all the ones where I was a DM (and most of my games go to 17 to 20).

So, if I'm hearing you straight, the class can be a lot of fun, but because other classes have risen in prominence, this one now sucks. Despite so many stories of people having a huge amount of fun playing them. Despite them being in the top half of popularity per D&D Beyond data. The evidence just isn't on your side, here.

If you want to stick to your guns that a class that is in the top half of the clases in popularity, that countless people have enjoyed playing, and that has a unique role as the intelligent class (I am sorry if I offended you by calling their sole place as the intelligence based PHB class a niche - when a niche is a specialized segment and that seems to be pretty much 100% on target) ... well, let's just chalk it up to us using different definitions.

If you don't enjoy it, don't play it.[/quote][/QUOTE]
 

So, if I'm hearing you straight, the class can be a lot of fun, but because other classes have risen in prominence, this one now sucks.
If that's what you're hearing, you're not listening.
If you don't enjoy it, don't play it.
You've completely and totally missed the entire point of the whole discussion. It's amazing.

The problem is that the entire game is warped, bent, damaged and twisted for the sake, the sole sake of the grog's take on the Wizard class. No other class has had the game bent out of shape in that way. And 2024 is doing it all over again.
 

If that's what you're hearing, you're not listening.

You've completely and totally missed the entire point of the whole discussion. It's amazing.

The problem is that the entire game is warped, bent, damaged and twisted for the sake, the sole sake of the grog's take on the Wizard class. No other class has had the game bent out of shape in that way. And 2024 is doing it all over again.

Bent out of shape?
 

If that's what you're hearing, you're not listening.
Right. I'm the one not listening. All the evidence is against you, and thread after thread / post after post are out there talking about how much fun people are having play wizards... but I'm the one not listening.
You've completely and totally missed the entire point of the whole discussion. It's amazing.
Or I just entirely disagree with your conclusion. I am not missing your point - I just find the point dull, and incapable of hitting a target.
The problem is that the entire game is warped, bent, damaged and twisted for the sake, the sole sake of the grog's take on the Wizard class. No other class has had the game bent out of shape in that way. And 2024 is doing it all over again.
The ENTIRE GAME is 1.) Warped, 2.) Bent, 3.) Damaged, and 4.) Twisted - for the SOLE SAKE of Travis' barbarian character in Campaign 1 of Critical Role ... errr ... grognards. Despite ALL OF THE SUBCLASS MECHANICS BEING NOVEL IN 5E and NOT IN ANY WAY REPRESENTATIVE OF THE PRIOR EDITIONS BELOVED BY GROGNARDS ... and the core mechanics of the class being criticized for being too similar to Sorcerer ... AND CRITICIZED BY MANY GROGNARDS EARLY IN 5E FOR ABANDONING VANCIAN SPELLCASTING... You're proposing that WotC's slavish dedication to the grognard's ideals is the culprit keeping them from making a better wizard. Right. That makes sense. Sure. Ok.

On the other hand: No. Just no. The 'ENTIRE GAME' as a whole is not even impacted, much less warped, bent, damaged & twisted by the wizard class design... and the differences between a 5E wizard and what came before keep it out of the treasure trove of the angry grognards...

Let's just stick to the absolute and undeniably established facts here: Many people have enjoyed playing many different types of wizards in 5E (whether for a few levels or for long campaigns), and the class is established to be in the top half in popularity metrics consistently throughout 5E. If that is in line with your definition of sucks, fine. Understand, though, that not many people are going to agree with that view.
 


Wizards suck because they aren't allowed to have real class features, and more often than not their subclass features are just kind of milquetoast. It's more or less the same problem the Fighter had for the longest time: Most of the cool stuff was cut away to give to other classes.

Mind you, this isn't for a lack of trying, there is a mountain of discarded UA rules. Which were mostly discarded because they were too close to other classes features (mostly the sorcerer). Which has ironically caused a feedback loop where none of the mage classes are getting the overhauls they need due to people being so terrified of stepping on toes for the longest time.
 

but I'm the one not listening.
Correct, the accidental hilarity of the rest of your post really just proves my point completely, as does the hilarious "Okay let's ignore everything you've said, and stick to the facts!" and then "the facts" are you reiteration of your views and absolutely nothing else lol damn son.
 

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