Wizards don't even get full access to their spell list, they get a truncated selection that, if they're lucky, can expand via found scrolls. Even if they had access to all of their spell list, the issue becomes which spells to prepare. People always talk about "why have X class when a wizard can just cast a spell" but if the wizard doesn't have the spell, say knock, prepared then it doesn't count for anything. Add to that the resource cost of expending a spell slot and I'll bet that any wizard would love to have a rogue available to pick any locks the run into.
Wizards gain a lot of power at high level, except those high level spells are once a day, if you only need those spell slots once a day, great, but if you've used your one 9th level spell and then have another encounter where your one 9th level spell prepared would be super useful, too bad.
I like wizards, probably my favourite class in any edition, but people often make out that they are super powerful (in 5e) when instead, they're just powerful, so long as they have spell slots available and maybe a day to prepare that spell that would be really useful to have right this minute.
I've gotten our campaign to 20th level and the biggest complaint of the wizard is that when it's not obviously a "go nova" encounter, she's pretty ineffective compared to the fighter, barbarian and rogue. Yes I threw in an encounter where meteor storm was absolutely critical and they likely wouldn't have survived without it, but I threw it in because I wanted to give her a chance to shine. But outside of those nova spells? Not so much.
I'm playing a wizard now and it's fun in a way, but I definitely feel the limits on options. Not only are scrolls expensive if I could actually find any to buy, but scribing them into my book is also hella expensive. Maybe it's not an issue in other campaigns, definitely has been in games I play.
Dude. You're the one arguing that wizards suck, except when I bring up 6 examples of where they've been or are expected to be a blast, you say that of course they're fun......Absolutely not. That's not rational, it doesn't make sense - in fact it's obviously false - nothing in the world is so bad or weird that some very strange individual doesn't like it. ...
I only talked about some of the experiences I've had running a wizard as a PC. There are all of the other ones where they did not run to 20, and then all the ones where I was a DM (and most of my games go to 17 to 20).And yes, no class in 5E sucks so bad it's always unfun, but Wizards have definitely died a death popularity-wise, because style-wise, they've got absolutely nothing. Not an iota of style.
If that's what you're hearing, you're not listening.So, if I'm hearing you straight, the class can be a lot of fun, but because other classes have risen in prominence, this one now sucks.
You've completely and totally missed the entire point of the whole discussion. It's amazing.If you don't enjoy it, don't play it.
If that's what you're hearing, you're not listening.
You've completely and totally missed the entire point of the whole discussion. It's amazing.
The problem is that the entire game is warped, bent, damaged and twisted for the sake, the sole sake of the grog's take on the Wizard class. No other class has had the game bent out of shape in that way. And 2024 is doing it all over again.
Right. I'm the one not listening. All the evidence is against you, and thread after thread / post after post are out there talking about how much fun people are having play wizards... but I'm the one not listening.If that's what you're hearing, you're not listening.
Or I just entirely disagree with your conclusion. I am not missing your point - I just find the point dull, and incapable of hitting a target.You've completely and totally missed the entire point of the whole discussion. It's amazing.
The ENTIRE GAME is 1.) Warped, 2.) Bent, 3.) Damaged, and 4.) Twisted - for the SOLE SAKE of Travis' barbarian character in Campaign 1 of Critical Role ... errr ... grognards. Despite ALL OF THE SUBCLASS MECHANICS BEING NOVEL IN 5E and NOT IN ANY WAY REPRESENTATIVE OF THE PRIOR EDITIONS BELOVED BY GROGNARDS ... and the core mechanics of the class being criticized for being too similar to Sorcerer ... AND CRITICIZED BY MANY GROGNARDS EARLY IN 5E FOR ABANDONING VANCIAN SPELLCASTING... You're proposing that WotC's slavish dedication to the grognard's ideals is the culprit keeping them from making a better wizard. Right. That makes sense. Sure. Ok.The problem is that the entire game is warped, bent, damaged and twisted for the sake, the sole sake of the grog's take on the Wizard class. No other class has had the game bent out of shape in that way. And 2024 is doing it all over again.
Correct, the accidental hilarity of the rest of your post really just proves my point completely, as does the hilarious "Okay let's ignore everything you've said, and stick to the facts!" and then "the facts" are you reiteration of your views and absolutely nothing else lol damn son.but I'm the one not listening.