Wizards: What happens when they lose their spellbooks?

[just__al]

This is why I won't DM without the following conditions.

1) No Characters from other DM's campaigns. If you really like your Elven Rogue Bubba you can recreate him for my campaign but you aren't bringing in an existing character.

2) Don't bring your character to other games. In fact, I'd appreciate it if you left the characters with me so I can make sure I'm planning appropriate encounters for the party. If you want to take your character home to plan or strategize, let me make a copy with my scanner first.

There is no way I'd DM this group as is. They are overpowered and I wouldn't want to keep throwing encounters that are 4 EL's too high (or worse) because just because they have spiffy gear doesn't make them able to deal with everything from that higher of an ECL.

If they are happy playing those characters as-is they should play them again in the other DM's game.

I'd be afraid of killing them by trying to keep them challenged. That's almost as bad as taking all their stuff just to balance them for my campaign.

 

[oromancer]

You know what's funny? Everyone has been very adamant about the fact that taking away a wizard's spellbook is rediculously crippling, which is of course true. But hardly anyone has mentioned the fact that wizards, as the party's most intelligent members, should be well aware of this fact. Wouldn't a guy with an IQ that makes MENSA look like the short bus have the foresight to make necessary precautions to protect his spellbook? Traps, wards, amazing locks, alternate dimensions, passwords, glyphs - all of these are options for wizards to make sure their spellbooks aren't taken, or are useless to those who would take them.

I disagree with railroading as much as anyone, but I think it's interesting that practically nobody has taken the opposing view...

 

[Pax]

Yes, oromancer ... and all of those are prohibitively expensive. Besides which, even if you can't use the spellbook YOURSELF ... there is value in merely denying a resource to an enemy. Thus, there is a reason for you to take an enemy wizard's spellbook away from him.

 

[Li Shenron]

Pax is right. You cannot let someone play a Wizard and suppose he must concentrate all the campaign long on protecting his spellbook, while the others play the adventures. I am kind of exaggerating here, but there is no other character who is so much dependent on a piece of equipment: of course the Fighter has to take care of his big magic sword, the Cleric should keep a couple of backup holy symbols and so on, but a Wizard whose spellbook is taken away has only the spells he hasn't cast yet and then he is almost idle until he finds the spellbook again.

 

[oromancer]

I don't really think anything rediculous needs to be done, just maybe learning a few different spells that can be cast on the spellbook to protect it, or buy a lock (hardly prohibitive in cost). PC's in D&D get tons of money if you play by the core rules as written. Granted, DM's may choose to scale this down a bit in some way, but in any case, what else is a wizard going to spend his money on? Its not like he has to buy new armor or weapons, or repair the ones he is using. Only monks and possibly sorcerers require less equipment than wizards.

Also, for the record, in my experience equipment is more valuable than the very lives of the PC's across the board, not just wizards. Anyone in my gaming group would rather die than lose their magic items - it's easy to find a church and get resurrected, not so easy to find Marge's Major Wondrous Items, Inc. in your average town.

 

[Darklone]

First: I know a lot of equipment that a wizard might need. Ring of Counterspells, Pearls of Power, AC stuff, Hitpoint boosts, save boosts.

Second: In my campaign, a wizard without his spellbook would be dead meat because he wouldn't have enough time to write more than one or two spells in it.

 

[Hammerhead]

Wizards need to pay money to add new spells to their spellbook. If they want to know more than two spells per level, they have to pay money to buy the scroll from someone, and then pay more money to copy it into their spellbook. Wizards are very dependent on getting lots of money if they want to have a decent selection of spells.

Oromancer's methods are generally both very expensive and impractical. Glyphs of Warding I can understand, but those things aren't cheap. Locks might be another good idea, but what idiot can't hire a Rogue or cast a Knock spell? Further, how exactly do you go about putting "wards" in your spellbook, using a "password," or hiding it in an "alternate dimension." I can't think of many spells that let you do those things, and none of them would apply to a spellbook you carry around all the time with you.

 

[Silverglass]

All I can suggest is that you DO NOT railroad them into losing their items or destroy their items. Both are bad DMing and will cause bad feelings with the players (because unless they are total idiots they will realise what you are doing after the 4th or 5th powerful item gets taken out of the game).

What you should do is explain it to the players and give them an informed choice, thats what you do with intelligent people, talk about issues and reach an acceptable compromise.

State openly that you are not happy with the sheer quantity and quality of magic items that the party has and offer them the following choices:

1. Start new characters.

2. Have the items removed or destroyed by DM fiat and replaced as you see fit.

3. Have the PC's voluntarily forfeit/downgrade items to a reasonable treasure level.

4. Have the PC's involved in a plot that involves their items being cursed/enspelled to drop their power until they have completed the necessary action to lift the curse, by which point the items powers they have regained will be in line with their level. So that Holy Avenger (net +8) becomes a +1 Holy Longsword (net +3) but regains its power as they level up. And the +3 Greataxe of Great Cleaving becomes a +1 Greataxe of Mighty Cleaving (+2 equivalent) etc etc.

5. Let them keep their items but adjust their CL to an ECL that reflects their equipment, so they get to be counted as 9th level PCs and will regurlarly face CR 9-11 monsters while only getting the xp that a 9th level PC would get and vastly reduced loot. Highlight that this means that life will be much much more dnagerous because they will be meeting opponents with far more save or dies spells and damages that they do not have the HP to resist.

6. Get another DM.

If your players have an ounce of intelligence they will jump for option 4, they get to keep their items (eventually) and won't be taking smackdowns left and right plus it gives them a plot hook and some nice adventures.

As an aside I would say that as they obviously like a high magic game try and swallow your dislikes to a degree and allow them some extras, say make them cut back to the treasure values of a PC 1 or 2 levels above their own (but if they go for 2 levels higher give them ECL +1 so they do get tougher encounters and slightly less experience).

You are the DM and they are the players, its not about 1 side getting their way at the expense of another but rather of keeping both sides happy by meeting soemwhere in the middle.

 

[Thanee]

I disagree with railroading as much as anyone, but I think it's interesting that practically nobody has taken the opposing view...

Wasn't that mentioned somewhere?

Well, at least my wizards usually have backups in safe locations (once they reach a certain level and can afford this, however, for fairness sake I must add, that we cut the ridiculous scribing cost by 10!), so the loss of the spellbook is not that bad. Mainly because it's THAT crippling to a wizard to have no means to prepare spells anymore!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Pax]

I don't really think anything rediculous needs to be done, just maybe learning a few different spells that can be cast on the spellbook to protect it, or buy a lock (hardly prohibitive in cost).

A lock doesn't prevent someoen from takign teh book -- only from OPENING it. And other than Fire Trap, I can't think of much that outright prevents someone from (again) just taking the thing away.

Which still leaves the Wizard in the same position: sans spellbook.

PC's in D&D get tons of money if you play by the core rules as written. Granted, DM's may choose to scale this down a bit in some way, but in any case, what else is a wizard going to spend his money on? Its not like he has to buy new armor or weapons, or repair the ones he is using. Only monks and possibly sorcerers require less equipment than wizards.

LOL!!!

Let's see; scribing costs or BBB's; Headbands of Intellect; Bracers of Armor; wands, staves, scrolls, and potions; cloaks of resistance or displacement; Ioun stones (if nothing else, the luck-bonus, competence-bonus, and caster-level bonus ones); a magic Quarterstaff ... especially with Spellblade (Mordenkainen's Disjunction) on one end and Spellblade(Dimensional Anchor) on the other.

Then there're those wee, insignificant, unimportant things called expensive spell components and foci ...