worlds and monsters is in my hands

[ObsidianCrane]

4E though, isn't made for players like that (my group), it's made for the "kick down door, kill monster, get treasure, wash hands, repeat" style of play IMHO.

How on earth do you come to that conclusion?

Certainly 4E will be conducive to the style of play you describe as well, those players will kick more doors, kill more monsters, and get more treasure, but that in no way makes it less RP centric.

If anything, based on what I know of 4E, I suspect it will suit your group better - their characters will be able to do more - so the RP will flow more smoothly. They will be less hung up on "can I do this" and more doing what they want.

Less mechanical hindrance => better RP.

For example 7th Sea makes it really easy to kill lots of "minions" at once, I found that gave players a lot more scope to RP. They got to the fight, they RPd the fight rather than number crunched the fight, an experience that matches my testing of the Crusader from Bo9S as well, a more conceptually 4E class. 1 Attack a round means faster flow around the table, and things like the Stances that require you to co-ordinate the other PCs become RP opportunities that you have time for. It was funny - I had time to attack and RP, the duel-wielding fighter/ranger with his 7 attacks spent the same time just attacking...

 

[Derren]

Which low-level spells are we talking about that can realistically be used to create a serious trap for a creature that would threaten a dragon? Before you seriously suggest Unseen Servant or Mage Hand I suggest you read the spell descriptions carefully.

Tzarevitch

Silent Image placed over a very deep pit for example.
Of course the dragon must know that the adventurers are coming to do this. Thats what the alarm spell is for which in itself is already a trap.

 

[Stephenls]

Doubtless this'll be ignored amidst the storm of controversy, but: Remember earlier preview material suggests monsters will be customizable with template-type things, not of the "this gnoll is half-demon" variety but rather "this gnoll has learned some magic."

Taking away intrinsic draconic spellcasting doesn't mean dragons can't cast spells anymore. It just means that a dragon that's also an accomplished mage is special even above and beyond other dragons. There's no reason why you shouldn't be able to say "Yeah, but this dragon knows a bunch of wizard spells" and be done with it. Just now, not all dragons have spells, so that people who want to run basic combat encounters with dragons that aren't campaign masterminds have a simpler time of it.

Smaug didn't do a lot of spellcasting. That a lot of authors following Tolkien decided that their dragons should be even more powerful than his doesn't make his dragon any less impressive.

 

[Tzarevitch]

And do you think the trap made b a spider is enough to stop an adventurer? It might be good enough to trap insects,but adventurers with access to magic? I think not.

Have you read the Hobbit or the Lord of the Rings? Shelob ring a bell? Mirkwood spiders? Fantasy spiders have more precedent for trap setting that dragons do. You seem to think "magic" is good enough to get out of a fantasy spider's trap but not good enough to get out of a fantasy dragon's trap. I guarantee you the spider is the better trap builder because that is what it does and it does it for free, magic not required. If a dragon wants a trap built, it cows minions into doing it or it or it just hires out for dwarves to come and do it. It doesn't depend on its own feeble magic and lack of skill in the area to accomplish the task.

Tzarevitch

 

[D.Shaffer]

Silent Image placed over a very deep pit for example.
Of course the dragon must know that the adventurers are coming to do this. Thats what the alarm spell is for which in itself is already a trap.

How did the dragon create such a pit? With what listed ability/spell?

And frankly, any adventuring party that is taking on a dragon in 3rd ed is NOT going to be troubled much by an image covered pit trap.

 

[Zaukrie]

Thanks to the people that posted summaries. I really like what I read. By far, the best part of the previews so far. While I'm still not thrilled with some of the dumbing down of the monsters (I like some monsters to have too many powers, so the players don't KNOW what they'll do), the FR, Shadowfell and some of the other stuff mentioned here sounds great.

 

[Tzarevitch]

Silent Image placed over a very deep pit for example.
Of course the dragon must know that the adventurers are coming to do this. Thats what the alarm spell is for which in itself is already a trap.

Alarm is the one and only low level spell useful for defending a lair and even then it is hardly something a dragon couldn't do without. Physical alarms work just as well and can actually harder to find and disarm and a dragon can certainly put one in itself. They also do not require re-casting. Minions work even better than alarms.

Silent image requires the dragon to concentrate on the image AND maintain line of sight AND not itself be seen by the adventurers. All this while it could be doing something more useful.

The spells you are looking for to cover a pit with an illusion are hallucinatory terrain (4th level) or Permanent Image (which is 6th). If the dragon wants a pit it can dig one and conceal it ahead of time with a false floor. Animals do this, a dragon can certainly do it too.

Before this argument goes further I should tell you I have heard it before. Low level dragon spells are NOT terribly useful for the dragon to defend its lair against a creature or group of adventurers powerful enough to challenge it in the first place. When people argue for those low-level spells they are almost always exaggerating what the spell actually does.

But enough on this, let's get back to getting more info on Worlds and Monsters.

Tzarevitch

 

[Plane Sailing]

Silent Image placed over a very deep pit for example.
Of course the dragon must know that the adventurers are coming to do this. Thats what the alarm spell is for which in itself is already a trap.

Derren,

If you wish to talk further about problems that your percieve with spell-less dragons, this is the time to start a new thread about it.

We'll let this thread get back to talking in general terms about the contents of 'worlds and monsters"

Thanks

 

[Conjurer]

• Dragons have fewer abilities, focused on the most iconic ones (continuing the theme). For example, the oldest black dragon is said to have only five possible standard actions, with unique magical abilities taking the place of spells simply taken from the wizard's lists.

I liked my spellcasting dragons. I expect that I'll still be able to give Wizard or Warlock levels to dragons, just to give them the ability to cast spells again.

• Dragons aren't forced into specific 'alignments'. Their motives can vary from a baseline - chromatic are wild, metallic like to be in control but good and evil manifests in each.

Good. Excelent, in fact. I've done this in the past myself. One of my old campaigns (3.0) ended with a fight against an evil Silver Dragon.

• There are two new flavours of metallic dragon which displace bronze and brass from the core group. The new metallics are Iron and Adamantine.

A shame, really. Bronze Dragons were easily my favorite metallic dragons. I guess I'll be re-creating them for my own use.[/list][/quote]

Shadowfell:

• Merges Negative Energy Plane and Plane of Shadow, removing the irritating bits that make these places a pain to visit.

For some reason, I really like this idea.

• Shadow is a power source. Involved with stealth, illusion, dread, 'devastating enemies' and 'necrotic energy'

So I guess we can start speculating whether Necromancers are Shadow Strikers while Illussionists are Shadow controllers or viceversa.

• They've re-concepted the undead, adding the animus, providing 'vitality and mobility', as a companion to the soul and the body.
• Very interesting descriptions of how different varieties of undead are now explained. Shadow are the animus freed of body and soul, for example.

This got my attention. More details would be welcome.

 

[Derren]

Very Well. Feel free to move all those dragon - spellcasting posts into another thread if you like as they are quite big.

Back to the other questions:
- How is the art?
- Do more dragons have those silly nose horns?
- Any informations about the relation between different races in PoL?
- Any information about the general danger level and/or xenophobia in PoL?.

A small summary of "The Next Word" would also be nice.

PS: The Wild Hunt? Someone played too much The Witcher.
And lets all wait for ArttToEE. Another return to the Temple of Elemental Evil