D&D General Worlds of Design: A Question of Balance

Some people think that every character class must be equally balanced with every other class, but why is that necessary? Are they competing with the other players in a co-operative game?

Some people think that every character class must be equally balanced with every other class, but why is that necessary? Are they competing with the other players in a co-operative game?
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The Destination or the Journey?

When approaching a discussion of class balance, it's worth asking the question: is an RPG session a destination or a journey? Or to put it another way, is an RPG session "mental gymnastics" or an "adventure"? I think the latter in both cases. Consequently, shouldn't character classes be about different ways to succeed, not about "power" (or whatever it is that has to be "equal" between each character)?

The concept of asymmetry--different starting capabilities and assets on each side--is very important in some kinds of games, like historical strategy games. It's hard to sensibly reproduce history symmetrically, in which all players start at the same level of power; for an example of how this is handled in a board game, see Risk. There's good reason for this. One of the easiest ways to achieve "balance" in a game is to make it symmetric, with everyone beginning "the same."

The need for symmetric play has spilled over in video game design, with all classes being balanced against each other, even in single-player. That style of game development has influenced modern tabletop games for similar reasons: keeping all players equal smooths out the game's design. But I think something is lost in forcing symmetric design in a tabletop role-playing game.

What's Class Balance, Anyway?

The first problem is that "class balance" is a fungible metric. Presumably, all classes are "equally powerful" but what does that mean, really? If play is all about the individual, the game turns into a competition between players to see who can show off the most. For games where personal power is important, this can make sense--but I don't find it conducive to the fundamentals of teamwork Dungeons & Dragons was built on. If D&D is about cooperation, flattening out every character's power implies that they're in competition with each other.

When the game is about the success of the group as a whole, about co-operation, then there may be compensations for playing a less powerful class. In fact, some of the classes by their very nature are inherently unbalanced for a reason. Jonathan Tweet's most recent article about The Unbalanced Cleric is a perfect example. And there are opportunities for creativity in how your "less powerful" character copes with adventuring.

Variety is the Spice of Life

There's also something to be said for the variety that comes from characters of differing capabilities. It doesn't matter to me if some characters are more powerful than others, whether it's because of class, or items owned, or something else. Different characters with different power levels creates a form of interesting play.

Here's a real life analogy: The soccer striker who scores a lot versus one who makes many chances/assists and helps the team maintain possession. But in a profession where it's so hard to score, the one who scores a lot will usually be regarded as a better player ("more powerful"), or at least the one who is paid more. Yet both are equally valuable to the team. And offensive players tend to be more highly regarded than defensive players.

Magic is Not Balanced

Then there's the issue of magic. In earlier versions of D&D, magic-users did much more damage than anyone else thanks to area effect spells (I tracked this once with the aid of a program I wrote for a Radio Shack Model 100!). In a fantasy, doesn't it make sense for the magic users to be the most powerful characters? Heroes in novels, who often don't wield magic, are exceptions in many ways: without a lot of luck, they would never succeed.

Designers can avoid the "problem" of character class balance by using skill-based rules rather than rules with character classes. You can let players differentiate themselves from others by the skills they choose, without "unbalancing" them. And shouldn't each character feel different? There are certainly archetypes that character classes often follow, yet those archetypes exist for reasons other than "play balance!"

Still, won't magic use dominate? A GM/game designer can do things to mitigate the power of magic. For example. magic can be dangerous to use, and the world can be one of low rather than high magic, e.g. like Middle-earth more than like The Wheel of Time.

The Value of Combined Arms

In the only RPG I've designed--which is intended for use with a board game, so that simplicity is paramount--I use a classless system. But for a bigger game such as D&D, multiple classes help provide both differentiation and opportunities for cooperation ("combined arms"). And I enjoy devising new character classes. Whether you need a dozen or more classes is open to question, however. Nor do they need to be "equal."
 

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Lewis Pulsipher

Lewis Pulsipher

Dragon, White Dwarf, Fiend Folio

EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way
I overreact, I’m sorry.
I agree that usually skilled player tend to play more complex character.
I don’t know how to give equivalence of teleportation, scrying, and other magic capacities to none caster classes.
but I have seen that a cooperative attitude from complex Character can make all other characters shine more efficiently than any compensation mechanics. The DM can also help a lot to put the spotlight on less complex characters.
I appreciate your calmer response here--it's not an easy thing to admit overreaction.

However, this does present us with a valuable new question to ask: If I am one of those players who struggles with the ultra-creative/ultra-adaptive solutions in play, why is it a good and necessary thing that my fun be dependent on the magnanimity of talented players and/or players who picked talented classes?

I completely agree that this is a difficult, thorny issue with few clear answers. But it seems to me that you're saying it's inherently good to focus all support on the talented and flexible players, and just hope that they kindly choose to prop up others instead of focusing on their own contributions. It frankly sounds like "trickle-down economics," just re-worded for game design. It's completely fine to concentrate a ton of power, versatility, and influence into some classes and not others. The powerful will share their bounty because of social contracts and the general awareness that everyone gets a better experience!...even though in practice that's often untrue and people often need much greater incentives to share their resources that way.
 

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I appreciate your calmer response here--it's not an easy thing to admit overreaction.

However, this does present us with a valuable new question to ask: If I am one of those players who struggles with the ultra-creative/ultra-adaptive solutions in play, why is it a good and necessary thing that my fun be dependent on the magnanimity of talented players and/or players who picked talented classes?

I completely agree that this is a difficult, thorny issue with few clear answers. But it seems to me that you're saying it's inherently good to focus all support on the talented and flexible players, and just hope that they kindly choose to prop up others instead of focusing on their own contributions. It frankly sounds like "trickle-down economics," just re-worded for game design. It's completely fine to concentrate a ton of power, versatility, and influence into some classes and not others. The powerful will share their bounty because of social contracts and the general awareness that everyone gets a better experience!...even though in practice that's often untrue and people often need much greater incentives to share their resources that way.
You may find useful to take a look a the preface of the phb.
I do understand from this text that they design the game assuming fairness, goodwill and cooperation between players and the Dm. Adding incentive or even coertion to impose this behavior dont seem to be necessary when they design the game. Maybe they put to much faith in their players, but we have to play with a ruleset build with this philosophy.
 

Hussar

Legend
So if each class can shine 1 session out of three and be support for the other two, then balance - right?

Nope. That's balanced 1/3 of the time and crap 2/3rds of the time. No interest in playing a game that is crap most of the time.

Or is finding ways to contribute notwithstanding.

Orthagonal to game design. A "shine all the time" class can contribute "notwithstanding" just as much as anyone else.

The Critical Role gang might beg to disagree on that. :)

Really? The Critical Role players frequently sit around for four hours not contributing to the game and not saying very much?

Oh, you mean the audience? Do you sit down to play D&D to be part of the audience?

Here I disagree, to the extent that I take it as a given there's going to be some sessions where I have little to nothing to do and other sessions where I'm at the center of everything. To me it's just part of the game.

There is a difference though. Is the reason you have little to do simply an artifact of the situation, or is it because the mechanics of your character mean that you can't really contribute anything? The first, sure, that is going to happen. It's unavoidable. But, that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about being sidelined because the mechanics of the game - a 3e rogue in a dungeon full of plant monsters and no traps. The rogue player did nothing wrong, but, because of the mechanics, cannot really contribute anything mechanically to the game. Sure, he might have great ideas, but, that is irrelevant to the class he is playing.

I put that right back on you. A MU of the sort of level that only gets one spell a day is (relatively speaking) quite capable in melee*, and in theory has enough intelligence to pull off all sorts of other things outside of combat e.g. planning, tactics, negotiation, etc.

* - I know this because gawds know I've played enough of 'em. :)

True enough. In 1e, it was actually fairly valid for an MU to fall back on a staff or darts and actually contribute. Thus, balance was, somewhat, achieved.

The point is, if the mechanics of the game is sidelining a character, then that is rather poor balance. And, again, I do not believe in long term balance. That's an illusion and it doesn't actually work because there are far, far too many presumptions built into it. Primarily, will the campaign actually last long enough?
 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
How do players win at RPGs?

They have fun. Simple as that.

(If you want to disagree with that, please include what you think the majority of players would accept gaming actively not being fun to get.)

So balance is not about characters being equally useful in all situations. Balance is something that happens at a table with everyone is given chances to shine and have spotlight equally.

So balance isn't mechanical. But mechanics can make it a lot harder to give everyone a chance to shine. If one character dominates every scene and the the players of the other characters don't feel like they are contributing or useful, that's not balanced.

So to me, the mechanical aspects of balance are giving everyone that shot - averaged over time. It doesn't (and likely can't) be perfectly balanced in every scene. But over an adventure or campaign, sure. The ranger gets to track, the rogue steals and disarms traps, both of them scout, the bard inspires with her speeches and the dwarven barbarian has long philosophic conversations and writes love poetry to help unite a shy lover and his beloved. Or whatever gives the characters chances to have the spotlight and contributes to fun.

The focus of D&D on combat both in terms of theme (most D&D games follow the historical roots and have combat as a regular and important part of overcoming many challenges) as well as in terms of percentage of time spent in session, means that it's easy to mistake balancing characters in combat for balancing spotlight time for players. It's not actually the same.

Other RPGs don't try to balance in combat, but mechanically balance in relevance. Marvel Heroic Roleplay is fine with a buddy session of Captain America and Black Widow even though they don't fight in the same league.

So, do I expect balance from a mature RPG ruleset? It's a bit of a trick question because balance of spotlight comes at the table. What I expect from a mature RPG ruleset is that they don't make it hard for the GM to provide balance by allowing characters to be either too scene-stealing or too uninteresting.
 
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EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way
"Spotlight balance" Is a pernicious goal IMNSHO. It doesn't work nearly as well as advertised, in large part because it's so, so easy to fool (by making, or merely being, a character worth paying attention to regardless of the rules) or manipulate (by exploiting social contracts/gentleman's agreements/group-benefit-thinking, e.g. 5-minute workdays).

Hence why I focus on stuff like guaranteed minimum competence and broadly-applicable abilities and/or skills. There is no need to shine a spotlight, which often gets hogged and/or muddled, when every person naturally shines just by playing.

Edit: Also, saying that the goal is "fun" is somewhat like saying that the goal of cooking is "flavor" and the goal of sportsball is "points" (golf-like exceptions excluded). Yes, technically correct, but highly unhelpful, because all that means is "a positive experience or successful performance." The whole point of the balance discussion is that balance is a tool by which fun is to be had. Yes, obviously, one must use one's tools with due care and caution, remembering that the goal is a positive experience. But just flashing "c'mon guys, remember the POINT is FUN"? Really really unhelpful most of the time.
 
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Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
"Spotlight balance" Is a pernicious goal IMNSHO. It doesn't work nearly as well as advertised, in large part because it's so, so easy to fool (by making, or merely being, a character worth paying attention to regardless of the rules) or manipulate (by exploiting social contracts/gentleman's agreements/group-benefit-thinking, e.g. 5-minute workdays).

That's why it's not the mechanical goal, but rather the DM goal. Which is a perfectly achievable goal and happens all the time - players each get a good amount of spotlight and are satisfied with a session.

The mechanical goal is not to make the DM's life harder to do it.

Hence why I focus on stuff like guaranteed minimum competence and broadly-applicable abilities and/or skills. There is no need to shine a spotlight, which often gets hogged and/or muddled, when every person naturally shines just by playing.

That statement - when you expand it out to "balance" - is demonstrably wrong. I am sure that you can think of a game you were in where it didn't happen equally and someone went home bummed. It does not naturally shine reasonably equally on all players so that everyone is satisfied just by playing. That's work on the DM part. And the players part at good tables. Sometimes it's easy and just flows, sometimes it more work.

The last campaign I ran the first page of my session planning was a list of all the PCs I copied each time with skills & features and other info, so that if some hadn't been getting enough spotlight I could make sure I put in more opportunities. "Hmm, the rogue was taking a bit of a back seat last session. Hmm, they are good at traps and I haven't had any recently, let me make sure I include them. Oh, and throw in a contact with that shifty 'friend' of theirs with another 'good offer'."
 
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Tony Vargas

Legend
Nope. That's balanced 1/3 of the time and crap 2/3rds of the time. No interest in playing a game that is crap most of the time.
No session, no play experience, in that hypothetical, is ever balanced. From a particular player's PoV, its imbalanced in his favor 1/3rd of time, and against him the rest.
But the pretense of balance exists only in retrospect.
Really? The Critical Role players frequently sit around for four hours not contributing to the game and not saying very much?
I assume they edit those bits out in post.

Oh, you mean the audience?
Yep, spectator sport, kinda a thing, now, and apparently moving books.

Do you sit down to play D&D to be part of the audience?
I do expect to pay attention to the other characters - and for that to be part of the fun, too.
And, yeah, it helps if all those characters are worthwhile.
 
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Lanefan

Victoria Rules
Well, your description only applies to old-school dungeon scenarios...

I understand your general idea though, but what you describe is essentially not about balance, but about interdependancy. To make sure a party needs each other in order to survive.
Interdependency is vitally important to the concept of an adventuring party (which D&D is largely built around) yet it gets reduced with each passing edition via the ongoing erosion of class niche protection.

Further, interdependency is in fact a form of balance: each character is there to fill in for the weaknesses of others.
 

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