WotBS (conversion to Pathfinder) OOC

[GlassEye]

Just a little extra for you, HM. The only time an attack changes from primary to secondary is if the eidolon (or other creature with natural attacks) uses a natural attack and a weapon attack at the same time. So multiple bite attacks will all be primary.

 

[Dragonwriter]

Well with the Boon not applying, Gulujak has to keep the Resistance around. *sigh*

The first set/suggestion doesn't get to keep the Trip, which is something I was really angling to keep. I may ditch Reach for now... I absolutely want him to keep on the Cerberus path. I don't care if he looks strange or even gets me in trouble; I don't have him around all the time in a city anyways. As for the two attacks, that's better than anyone else in the group.

The second set is something I could see later on, once I've got the multi-headed bit established. One little problem with that right now is I can't get Energy Attacks yet (requires 5th level, I'm only 4th now). I do intend to grab Pounce, at a later time.

I was also considering getting a Tail and a Sting, then going for Poison (as version of Cerberus sometimes vary on him having a snake-tail, many snakes for a tail, or a stinger, but most do keep the poisonous portion, either in the snakes or in his actual bite). Really, there's a lot of ways I can go with the Cerberus style. Making it fit into my Points budget is another matter.

Hm... So as not to give up anything, I think I'll take the Poison evolution for his Bite. I'll probably also take the Lesser Evolution Surge spell to be able to grant him a Tail and Sting for a battle, if needed. Or Claws and Pounce. Either way...

Thanks for the help, Satin Knights. (And you too, GlassEye.)

[sblock=Barrik Level 4]
Summoner Level 4
+1 Ability Score (Charisma)
+X HP (yet to roll, 1d8+3). +1 for Favored Class
+1 BAB (total 3), +1 Will Save (total 4).
+1 Handle Animal, +1 Knowledge (Planes), +1 Knowledge (religion), +1 Ride, +1 Use Magic Device.
Learn 2 2nd-level spells, gain 1 2nd-level spell slot/day (plus bonus spells). (Bull’s Strength, Lesser Evolution Surge)
Gain Shield Ally class feature.
Gain 2 Evolution Points. Spend on the Poison (Bite) Evolution.
[/sblock]

 

[HolyMan]

Thanks SK & GE (and thank Toddy for me ) - Glad there are others about to help me with the new odd-ball stuff.

Is that a regular ruling that anyone with a natural attack gets it pushed back to secondary when they wield a weapon? I have seen it in the tengu write up but under alternate racial features for half-orcs they don't mention it for the Toothy ability (I have house-ruled it as secondary when a weapon is in use).

Didn't see the extra head costing 2 points (looking again...) thought it would be fluff for adding the bite. Ah ok it's in the UM. Doesn't grant anything but allows for an extra bite to be taken (which would be primary and have the trip added to it for free). But I don't see under the APG where you can only have one bite attack and need the extra head to get the second attack. It does say that if you have a bite attack and take it again you go to 1-1/2 STR dmg. But what happens if you have it and take it twice. I'm thinking double jawed two rows of teeth type monster here.

Toddy didn't know the reason behind the resistance (fire) is because the group is in the middle of a 40 year old forest fire that never dies. But the other evolution suggestions look good.

Take your time DW we have a little searching RP ahead before the level ups take effect.

HM

 

[Satin Knights]

Using a manufactured weapon attack forces all natural attacks to secondary? Yes. It is on page 302 of the Bestiary. It is a general rule for all creatures.

Actually, APG RAW says bite can only be added once. If the creature already had bite, then the STR damage goes to 1.5x. UM RAW lets the bite be placed on a second head, but does not say the bite evolution can be take more than once (past the free one). So, by RAW, only two bites can be used. Then their Hydra example eidolon violates that thought, and puts one bite on each of the five heads. Again, Paizo fuzziness.

Poison is out for the moment, as it needs 7th level. Yeah, I missed Energy Attacks needs 5th earlier.

The Lesser Evolution Surge spell only gives you one evolution, and up to 2 points. So, you could add pounce or claws, but not both, without casting it twice. It is great for adding things like Gills or Climb, that are very situational, but needed when they are needed. After 5th level, winged flight is useful too.

So, with a little more explanation of what is important to the character,
2 extra head, 1 extra bite, 2 trip, 1 fire resist, 1 claws(fore legs) is the best damage potential.
2 extra head, 1 extra bite, 2 trip, 1 fire resist, 1 Imp Damage(bite), not optimal, 2 +1 avg damage vs 2 +2.5 avg damage with claws, but better for attempting to go through DR.
2 extra head, 1 extra bite, 2 trip, 1 fire resist, 1 Imp Nat Armor has the better AC.
2 extra head, 1 extra bite, 2 trip, 1 fire resist, 1 skilled(acrobatics) is the best flanker.

Since the eidolon can have four attacks per round now, the first is probably the best unless you don't want to be a showboat.

 

[Dragonwriter]

Using a manufactured weapon attack forces all natural attacks to secondary? Yes. It is on page 302 of the Bestiary. It is a general rule for all creatures.

Actually, APG RAW says bite can only be added once. If the creature already had bite, then the STR damage goes to 1.5x. UM RAW lets the bite be placed on a second head, but does not say the bite evolution can be take more than once (past the free one). So, by RAW, only two bites can be used. Then their Hydra example eidolon violates that thought, and puts one bite on each of the five heads. Again, Paizo fuzziness.

I think probably the only way that all will be totally resolved is once they get it fully into their FAQ (or whatever they're using). Thankfully, they are fairly good about working on that.
(Unlike WotC who NEVER published accurate errata for the Tome of Battle. No joke, ToB's errata is actually from Complete Mage. )

Poison is out for the moment, as it needs 7th level. Yeah, I missed Energy Attacks needs 5th earlier.

Ack! You miss the Energy Attacks, then I miss the Poison qualifiers... accursed fine print and prerequisites.

The Lesser Evolution Surge spell only gives you one evolution, and up to 2 points. So, you could add pounce or claws, but not both, without casting it twice. It is great for adding things like Gills or Climb, that are very situational, but needed when they are needed. After 5th level, winged flight is useful too.

Missed that 'one evolution' part. But still, as you said, useful for Claws or one of the situational evolutions.

So, with a little more explanation of what is important to the character,
2 extra head, 1 extra bite, 2 trip, 1 fire resist, 1 claws(fore legs) is the best damage potential.
2 extra head, 1 extra bite, 2 trip, 1 fire resist, 1 Imp Damage(bite), not optimal, 2 +1 avg damage vs 2 +2.5 avg damage with claws, but better for attempting to go through DR.
2 extra head, 1 extra bite, 2 trip, 1 fire resist, 1 Imp Nat Armor has the better AC.
2 extra head, 1 extra bite, 2 trip, 1 fire resist, 1 skilled(acrobatics) is the best flanker.

Since the eidolon can have four attacks per round now, the first is probably the best unless you don't want to be a showboat.

I'm leaning towards the 2nd or 3rd setups... We need someone actually capable of distracting foes and standing up to the hits (and Claws are a less important part of the vision). Might as well be someone who can't die permanently.

 

[jbear]

Before I seal Spirit's level up in blood, I have a question about what Stat to increase.

Is it better to go from Dexterity 16 to 17 (for a future 18) or gain the immeadiate benefit of Strength 11 to 12 for example? Ireally haven't thought about Spirits progression in future levels, and i don't have the system expertise to know if I'm being dumb.

Appreciate any help or advice
Cheers
J

 

[HolyMan]

All on what you later plan for Spirit to be I guess. Hard to know what is most important at the moment. But I think the DEx would be a good way to go.

You get it to 18 at LvL 8 and by then have a magical item that will give you a +2 to DEX and you will be sitting on a +5 bonus. Go for range touch spells and the like.

Best PrC for Spirit of course is Arcane Trickster. It would allow you to advance as both a rogue and wizard at the same time. You don't get as many skill points or the rogue talents - but you may wish to look to see if you like the impromptu sneak attack and tricky spells abilities.

You would need to be a 7th lvl and Rogue3/Wizard3 before you could take your first level in the PrC so there is time to look it over.

HM

 

[jbear]

Cheers HM, Arcane Trickster looks good. Okay so, Rogue this lvl and then 2 more in wizard. Sounds good. And pump DEX.

 

[HolyMan]

I thought the ability to pick a lock from 30' away (in case you miss your perception check for traps again - and aren't so lucky as this time) also something worthwhile.

Glad I could help.

HM

 

[jbear]

yeah, that could have blown up in my face big time! 30 ft sounds like a good distance!

Eh, only 5 post to go to crack the 10 grand, I see! What a beast!