WotC WotC blacklist. Discussion

[Hussar]

Thanks, BTW, to all the folks clarifying re: computers handling real distances as easily, or virtually so, as grids.

I do still think that tracking all the situational modifiers and eligibility for off-turn actions is something VTT automation would have been a big help with and real value-add for 4E, especially at high level and for certain classes like the Shaman with its Spirit Companion. And it is my working theory that they were written with it in mind; that the designers expected that players and DMs would routinely be able to offload much of the cognitive load of tracking them to the VTT, and that this informed the design of 4E.

As someone who did play 4e on VTT, I can honestly say that yup, it makes a huge difference. Never minding the interrupts, it was tracking the status effects that would be a nightmare in 4e. We used to have a contest to see if we could cover the entire token with status effects - and we managed it a couple of times too. I believe the record was 12 or 13 status effects on a single target at the same time. :wow: It was just ludicrous. I couldn't imagine trying to do that tabletop.

But, no, 4e wasn't designed with VTT in mind. The VTT's were designed with 4e in mind - or at least the modules for Maptools I used were. It just automated so much.

Again, 4e was designed for public play. Virtually all the design decisions come down to the idea that you would sit down, routinely, with four other strangers, and be able to have a decent game without too much fuss. So, there is a considerable amount of overlap between that and how VTT play generally works, so, I think that's where you're seeing the idea that 4e was designed for VTT play.

At high (epic) levels, a single round of combat could take our group an hour to resolve. There were some good aspects to 4E, speed of play at higher levels was not one of them for us.

As much of a fanbois of 4e that I am, I cannot disagree with this. Higher level 4e was brutal. Like I said, any system where you can actually apply more than 10 status effects at the same time is not designed for speed of play.

But still, I'm heavily under the impression this entire game was built with a VTT that took care of all the busy work in mind. I'm grateful it never panned out though, cause I'm sure it would have turned into microtransaction hell.

You mean like it is right now with 5e? Have you looked at the microtransactions you can do with either Fantasy Grounds or Roll20? You can spend any amount of money you want. Hell, Fantasy Grounds has offloaded so much development onto people who are doing small program improvements for micro-transactions. Stuff that absolutely should be part and parcel of Fantasy Grounds itself is being monetized and left to others. It's really annoying. You want Fantasy Grounds to have drop down menus instead of the radial menu? Pay 5 bucks to some non-FG developer and you can have that. You want auras to be automated so that your paladin's aura doesn't get forgotten during combat? Pay 2 bucks and we can do that.

I just want a Virtual Tabletop for 5e that ACTUALLY IMPLEMENTS the core rules found in the SRD. Is that really too much to ask when I have to drop 250 bucks on a program (ultimate License plus core 3 books)?

I really, really hope that WotC brings out their own VTT for the 2024 release. I will drop Fantasy Grounds like a sack of cement if they do.

 

[darjr]

I actually super appreciate owlbear rodeo. We can do the rules thanks.

 

[haakon1]

I actually super appreciate owlbear rodeo. We can do the rules thanks.

I don’t know what that means, but I like it.

 

[darjr]

I don’t know what that means, but I like it.

It’s a super simple vtt that does the vtt parts and nothing more. Fast and easy to run.

Owlbear Rodeo

A more bear-able virtual tabletop

www.owlbear.rodeo

 

[Hussar]

I looked at Owlbear Rodeo. Very cool.

But, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP MAKING YOUTUBE HOW TO VIDEOS.

I do not want to watch a 15 minute video on how to make a character token. I don't want to listen to some random dude say hello to me or anything like that. Is it really that freaking hard to write stuff down? Fantasy Grounds does this too. It's so freaking annoying. I have to watch a fifteen minute video to answer a one sentence question?

Why do they do this? I have no freaking idea what this serves? Just write the freaking instructions down somewhere on a wiki, in plain language. I absolutely LOATHE youtube howto videos.

Sorry, to rant here, but, good grief, for the time it would take to make one of those youtube videos, a FIFTEEN MINUTE VIDEO ON HOW TO MAKE A FREAKING CHARACTER TOKEN? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? they could take those notes that he's reading from and post it somewhere where I can do a keyword search, get my answers in 30 seconds and be a lot happier.

If any VTT software developers are reading this, please, for the love of GOD, stop making how to youtube videos.

I mean, all I wanted to know was if Owlbear Rodeo automates dice and effects. So that, for example, I could click and drag a Magic Missile button (like I would in Fantasy Grounds) and drop it on an enemy and the dice will automatically roll. Apparently, no, at least from this FIFTEEN MINUTE VIDEO, I would say that it doesn't do that. But, I had to waste 15 minutes of my time learning about how to resize and rotate tokens in order to find this out.

Sigh.

 

[darjr]

Now I’m sorry I posted it. I didn’t know I had this power.

Narration: no, he was in actual fact, not sorry.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I looked at Owlbear Rodeo. Very cool.

But, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP MAKING YOUTUBE HOW TO VIDEOS.

I do not want to watch a 15 minute video on how to make a character token. I don't want to listen to some random dude say hello to me or anything like that. Is it really that freaking hard to write stuff down? Fantasy Grounds does this too. It's so freaking annoying. I have to watch a fifteen minute video to answer a one sentence question?

Why do they do this? I have no freaking idea what this serves? Just write the freaking instructions down somewhere on a wiki, in plain language. I absolutely LOATHE youtube howto videos.

Sorry, to rant here, but, good grief, for the time it would take to make one of those youtube videos, a FIFTEEN MINUTE VIDEO ON HOW TO MAKE A FREAKING CHARACTER TOKEN? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? they could take those notes that he's reading from and post it somewhere where I can do a keyword search, get my answers in 30 seconds and be a lot happier.

If any VTT software developers are reading this, please, for the love of GOD, stop making how to youtube videos.

I mean, all I wanted to know was if Owlbear Rodeo automates dice and effects. So that, for example, I could click and drag a Magic Missile button (like I would in Fantasy Grounds) and drop it on an enemy and the dice will automatically roll. Apparently, no, at least from this FIFTEEN MINUTE VIDEO, I would say that it doesn't do that. But, I had to waste 15 minutes of my time learning about how to resize and rotate tokens in order to find this out.

Sigh.

If they were doing it to get the information out there, that would be one thing. But they're doing it for clicks. A text answer can't make you a quasi-celebrity.

 

[Jahydin]

You mean like it is right now with 5e? Have you looked at the microtransactions you can do with either Fantasy Grounds or Roll20?

I don't use VTTs, so been pretty oblivious for a long time, but recently found out. I was trying to track down a Saltwater Marsh map to print and was really confused I couldn't find one. After a ton of searching, I finally found one, but it was behind a ridiculous paywall on Beyond ($10 I think...?). I then saw they were selling each item and monster description for $$$ as well. Truly the stupidest thing I've ever seen in our hobby.

Well, besides NFTs...

 

[Jahydin]

If they were doing it to get the information out there, that would be one thing. But they're doing it for clicks. A text answer can't make you a quasi-celebrity.

Sounds like someone just needs to post that in the YouTube comments for everyone, lol.

 

[darjr]

If they were doing it to get the information out there, that would be one thing. But they're doing it for clicks. A text answer can't make you a quasi-celebrity.

Wait what? No. It’s just two people doing this as a side business. I dint think they ever did any video products before. Cheese n crackers give people a breaks