WOTC undecided over OGL/GSL. Why you should care

[Atlatl Jones]

One thing that we've learned very keenly is that at the time of buyout, parent companies always *say* exactly this, that they'll "leave the subsidiary alone and not mess with it". That's standard PR when a company is bought (helps keep staff & customers from fleeing) -- but they always *do* mess with it, because they think they can make it run more profitably than what they bought it for.

It's because of this profit motive that Hasbro probably doesn't even care what happens with D&D, much less open gaming. The $ difference between 4e bombing and becoming a fantastic success probably isn't even larger than the rounding error of a company of Hasbro's size. D&D's valuable to Hasbro primarily for its IP, for video game licensing and its novel lines.

 

[Seanchai]

Your example isn't specific enough...If Clark gets nervous about 4e open licensing, its because he's affected, his employees are affected, and his customers are affected. As a customer of his (and other 3rd party publishers who will be likewise affected), I'm more than a little worried I will have to get the kind of content he (and they) can provide directly from WotC - or more likely that I won't be able to get it at all...

To nitpick your nitpick, can you really be a customer of his if he doesn't have any product to sell you? At this point, you're someone who intends to buy something he plans to produce.

Seanchai

 

[Seanchai]

Mistwell; the point is that WoTC have not communicated with their closest 3rd party publisher over GSL, three months after a conference call where they promised GSL. They have not fulfilled one of their promises made in their press statement about how GSL would be handled.

You know what happens when RPG consumers complain to RPG publishers about the lack of communication, inaccurate press releases, missed deadlines, etc.? They're giving a song and dance, told to stop whining, that they're lucking to be getting any product at all, and that they'll get whatever it is they're waiting on when they get it.

As I said in a previous post, for us, this is just a hobby and for publisher, it's their source of income, but it is interesting to see publishers get a sense of what it's like to be told something they're looking foward to is coming down the pike, then...nothing.

But, really, it strikes me that this is just business. Not the way I'd conduct business or would like business to be conducted, but the manner in which it is. Delays happen. People tell you stuff and it doesn't pan out. You end up sweating deadlines and decisions.

The next generation of D&D designers could be sitting in Paizo or Necromancer Games right now. What happens to them if GSL screws them up and makes them work on some other system. Some will never return to it. Other designers will never get a chance to make games and so will be completely lost to the industry. 3PPs are an important nursery for talented writers for D&D and this needs saving.

Now you're really stretching it.

It could also be, for example, that publishing using the GSL would have allowed the next Hitler to amass enough capital to start a political campaign that would eventually allow her to become President of the United States, declare martial law, secretly wipe out Congress, kill a bunch of innocent people, etc.. It could be that the lack of a GSL prevents an American dictator from taking over the world!

Seanchai

 

[lrsach01]

OK...just slogged through 7 pages of this topic. Wow...look, I don't think there is any reason to start screaming about the falling sky, but the topic is worth a good discussion.

One point I think is getting and that is the reason the OGL was started in the first place. Ryan Dancey, I believe, stated that WotC was going to make a small consistent amount of money as the creator of the rules books and SOME adventures. The OGL would let lots of others to come up with the games and some side content WotC wasn't interested in doing. AT THE SAME TIME, making sure that the content was available to them IF they thought they could do something with it. Sure, lots of small companies came out with lots of bad stuff...and they are gone now. It was only when WoyC decided they wanted to make the cash from successful third parties that you saw them start doing more modules, more settings books and LOTS more rule books.

The point is, the OGL was there to make money for WotC. Someone earlier stated that gaming companies didn't license their work? But they do...the engines! The game engines are licensed all the time. Doom, Quake, Monolith are the ones from when I used to play PC games.

If WotC wants to pull out from their GSL, they can. Its their party and they can do what they want. But, they need to be ready for the backlash when people start complaining about the modules (either quality or quantity). They've already pulled back EVERY setting and the magazines. This means THEY are going to be accountable for EVERYTHING. After 3.0 came out and people started complaining about quality, WotC could say, "Hey, its third party! If you want quality, come to us!" Not if they kill the GSL.

Ok...time for this post to go through the buzz saw.

 

[mxyzplk]

If WotC wants to pull out from their GSL, they can. Its their party and they can do what they want. But, they need to be ready for the backlash when people start complaining about the modules (either quality or quantity). They've already pulled back EVERY setting and the magazines. This means THEY are going to be accountable for EVERYTHING. After 3.0 came out and people started complaining about quality, WotC could say, "Hey, its third party! If you want quality, come to us!" Not if they kill the GSL.

Exactly, and so far it's not looking good. Dragon and Dungeon got pulled a while ago, and what they've published so far in their name is a sad joke. The screenshots of their digital play initiative make me shudder.

 

[Orcus]

No. I'm not in business with you. I'm just a dude who buys gaming books and plays games with his friends. If Necromancer Games went out of business, it would not disrupt my life one whit. I'd just buy Paizo or Green Ronin products instead. Or White Wolf ones. Or maybe ones from a company that doesn't exist yet.

I can understand why you'd be concerned - this is your livelihood we're talking about. It's the way you pay your bills, support your family, etc.. I can understand why you'd like us to believe that we have to act to promote your interests, but, really, we don't.

Seanchai

As an aside, I dont appreciate your suggestions that I am trying to trick anyone.

But that aside, Necro doesnt pay my bills. It isnt my livelyhood at all. Its a hobby. A hobby I happen to be passionate about. Does it make money? Yes. But if Necro closed its doors the financial impact on me would be this: I wouldnt be able go buy new guitars as often as I do. I'm an attorney. Necro is not my day job. I am fixed financially. I;m not trying to brag or be a dick or be better than anyone. I' not. I'm a gamer like everyone else. But Necro isnt even remotely relevant to my income. Its fun money. Its easy to just say "they are a publisher so they are trying to get this to make money! they are crying cause they cant make money." I guess people will always be able to say that. Will I make money with a license. Sure. But that has nothing to do with my position on things. And if you knew me and worked with me, ever, you would know that. Just ask Erik Mona. Ask Ryan Dancey. Ask Steve or Stewart Wieck from WW. Heck, you could probably even ask Linae and Scott. My heart is in D&D. Its what got me to start Necro in the first place.

I'm not trying to get you to believe that you have to act to promote my interests.

You can believe that or not. My guess is you wont.

I love D&D. I want D&D to be strong when my daughter goes to college.

I think not licensing third parties to support 4E is a mistake. I dont care if they put in reasonable restrictions, such as ones in the d20 STL. Those make sense to me. I dont want to see the people who run D&D make a mistake and fracture the game's fan base. And I am not the only one that sees this.

But, if you want to characterize me falsely as someone who is trying to trick others for my best interests, go ahead.

Or, you could take as proof that I am not doing that the fact that I specifically am NOT doing what a prior poster said.

Basically, if I just wanted to exploit things I would not be saying a word. I have a good relationship with Wizards. I likely could get a license to do some products. So I could just lay in the weeds, watch Wizards kill off third party support, then get a license and make a killing. But that isnt how I operate. I'm not here just to make money for me. Which is the joy of running a game company as a hobby. I dont have to do stuff like that. I can do what I happen to think is right--and, in this case, that is try my darndest to convince Wizards that not opening 4E in some form is a horrible mistake.

Clark

 

[Orcus]

Clark, I have some advice to you. I know, from having read your material, that you're one of the best third-party publishers, and I know, from having read your posts, that you're a smart man. I believe that the people behind this decision know exactly how third parties can boost sales.

Which is why my advice to you is to take the foot out of your mouth and shut up. Shut up and look at the incredible deal you might well be getting for a second: a perpetual exclusive period in which to produce supplements with Fourth Edition rules and that First Edition feel, for what, exactly? The same price you were, as you yourself have repeatedly noted, willing to pay for a mere early look at the rules and a six month exclusive period?

And what else will you gain? The elimination of the majority of your competition, mostly fly-by-night outfits who released product with no quality control whatsoever. There will be no more "d20 glut" for you to struggle against, and your products will have an air of legitimacy that they never had in the Third Edition days.

What will WotC gain from this? Simple, a tighter control over their intellectual property and actual, honest-to-G-d quality control. In exchange they will... lose a few sales from butthurt fanboys who don't understand how this benefits them and their favorite third parties instead of hurting them, and they'll lose "support" from fly-by-night affairs - quoted as it was historically mostly comprised of barely-edited houserules and mongoloid interpretations of the d20 System, not anything an honest critic could call support.

So stay optimistic, Clark, but stop provoking fanboys into a tizzy and just watch yourself win big. Please?

Sora,

By the way, I dont think you should get in trouble for posting this. I didnt take it the way I think the mods did. I didnt see you as telling me to "shut up" like you were shouting me down. You were saying "hey, be quiet for your own good and make some freaking money for yourself, silly!"

I get what you are saying.

I hope the fact that I am here, and I am talking shows you that I care more about D&D than I do about me.

Becaue you are right. I could do exactly what you say. I could be quiet. I could let Wizards nuke any 4E licensing. Then I could, likely, get permission to do a few products and make a killing.

But that isnt how I work. I want to see D&D strong. I want to see it last. I'm not about the quick buck.

See, Necro isnt my livelihood. Its a hobby for me. It puts me in a unique position in this industry. I dont have to make my decisions based on money. I have the luxury of doing what I think is right.

You are right. I am smart. I have thought of what you proposed. And I rejected it as quickly as I thought of it.

I am a huge supporter of Wizards and of D&D. I am a gamer and a D&D fan first, and a publisher second. And if you ever needed proof of this (I'm looking at you Seanchi), all you have to do is notice that I am NOT doing what Sora said. That alone should show you where my interests are on this.

Clark

 

[mxyzplk]

But you're a lawyer. Now we *know* you're lying.

j/k. I like how people that are rabidly defending WotC can ignore information no matter how much better positioned the person is than them to give information and/or analyze it. What do you know mr. runs an RPG company man! I'm an internet smartypants. Win!

 

[Piratecat]

I've seen much more rudeness in this thread than I prefer. Thank you to everyone who has worked to phrase things politely, even when they didn't agree with others.

For folks who haven't done that? Best to start, please. It isn't optional.

 

[bramadan]

I was never a great fan of OGL so I guess this thread is not really for me but, I do feel like I need to warn against the "sky is falling" sort of feeling that is often attendant to this sort of discussions.

Fantasy gaming (and other sorts of role playing) are not going anywhere no matter what happens to OGL and - frankly - no matter what happens to WotC and DnD. Gygax came up with his brilliant idea and noone can un-invent it any more then people could un-invent a safety razor if Gillette went out of business.

People talk about mid 1990ies as "dark ages" and yet in the mid '90ies we all gamed as much as now (perhaps more as we were younger) and there was tons of excellent games to choose from.

Only thing that can "kill" PnP RPGs is if someone comes with better sort of entertainment that appeals to the same social, mathematical and creative impulses. And even when such inventions come about the overall gaming hobby only benefits in the long run.

In early '80ies DnD was getting a bit stale with its insistence on the dungeon delving and lack of out-doors, social and military rules. People worried if the RPGs will become forever locked in a tiny niche and wither on a vine. As it turns out from that worry we got Glorantha/Runequest, Traveller and Harn

In late '80ies TSR moved DnD much more into mainstream and made it more kid-friendly and bland. People (me included) screamed about corporate sellout and end of RPGS - we ended up getting bunch of edgier games such as WFRP and Vampire-The Masquerade that influenced the genre and brought gaming to many of the folks who would not have gone for something as geeky as "vanilla" DnD

In 90ies Magic came and everyone was talking about the "end of RPGS" even of "end of gaming as we know it" it turned out it was quite the contrary, Game stores got a shot in the arm, general player base increased and it became easier to find players for the RPGs. Also, mathematicians started being more involved with game design (a Good Thing if you ask me).

Then came WotC buyout of the TSR and another wave of "sky is falling" predicaments. We ended up with a servicable new edition of DnD.

Then came german board games and I heard people decry even those as the end-of-gaming phenomenon and finally WoW which got folks to pull out all those finely preserved arguments from mid 80ies how computer games will finish off the hobby once and for all. As it turns out there are at least two WoW players that I know who will be trying their first PnP RPG come June and who would not have touched it with a ten foot pole before getting their feet wet online.

So, to finish off, OGL or no OGL, sky is not falling. Gaming will survive and thrive as long as there are intelligent sociable folks with some creativity and imagination kicking around. Companies and games can come and go but that - as it were - is their problem. As long as there is market someone will cater to it, particularly in this age of long tails and niche marketing.