WOTC undecided over OGL/GSL. Why you should care

[Seanchai]

As an aside, I dont appreciate your suggestions that I am trying to trick anyone.

I can understand why you wouldn't. Nevertheless, it is in the publishers' best interests to convince the public to put pressure on WotC to release the GSL. It's great that you say you would never speak out against something for personal gain, but I don't know you personally, I live a commerical society, and the bad guys claim to be personally offended, too, in order to sell products or smooth over ruffled feathers. Sorry, but I'm going to take what you say with a grain of salt.

Seanchai

 

[grimslade]

I'd wait for close of business Monday to worry about the Rouse or Linnae not posting a reply to this thread or some other.

I think Mistwell has the right of it. The GSL is being passed back and forth between lawyers to close suspected loopholes and quibbling over the definition of the word 'IS'. There are a bunch of people committed to open gaming at WotC and they will continue to push for the GSL to be released.

There is reason for concern, however. WotC has a new president, Greg Leeds, who came over from Hasbro International Marketing and helped develop Hasbro's global brand management methodology. The OGL/GSL would be in his sandbox. He would be an additional 'vetting' step. I would interpret it as more of a delay than an abandonment of OGL/GSL. Of course, I don't know what Hasbro global brand management methodology looks like, so I can't be sure.

Hopefully, we will have Le Rouse come out tomorrow and post a nice Kevin Bacon moment of "All is well. Remain Calm."

Clarke, keep up the optimism. The other way leads to madness and stunts your creativity. What will be, will be. Keep touting all the great stuff you can add to 4E and maybe some GSL naysayers will be intrigued!

 

[Seanchai]

The reason the OGL is a good idea for WotC is because it makes them money.

Yes. But it also creates additional players in the marketplace. (I would say "additional competitors," but they're not really.) And these additional companies can adversely affect D&D's image (i.e., Book of Erotic Fantasy).

I

It expands the size of the industry, and draws in more customers, which encourages sales of every product.

Except it doesn't draw in more customers. What we've got is what we've got.

Look at it this way--say you have a group of gamers who are looking for a new game. One of them picks up Paizo's Rise of the Runelords, flips through it, and decides to run it...And for Wizard of the Coast? Probably everybody picks up a Player's Handbook.

Probably? Publishers complain all the time about not everyone in a group picking up a core rulebook.

Without Paizo, those sales don't happen.

Possibly. A few things, however.

First, third party publishers don't sell as much as WotC does. The chances some is going to be unfamiliar with D&D but familiar with Paizo's products aren't that great.

Moreover, not everyone exposed to and favorable toward Paizo products will pick up another company's product, even if it's the PHB. You can play D&D without your own PHB, especially in the age of the SRD.

And would WotC even notice if reality got bent and all the Paizo-driven sales suddenly went away? WotC says it has 4.5 million D&D players - just how many of them really could have come from someone running Rise of the Runelords?

In conjunction with the above, WotC actually has to do work to "support" the SRD, d20 license, and OGL. It costs them money. When you subtract all the money they're making via third-party sales from the money they're outlaying for the OGL, how much is really left?

Finally, folks buying WotC because of a Paizo product is one scenario, but there are others. For example, Timmy's mom sees Book of Erotic Fantasy on the shelf next to the D&D books and decides maybe tabletop gaming isn't for Timmy. Or maybe a new gamer who started with White Wolf products decides to give D&D a go, but her DM picked up a really bad third-party adventure and now the potential D&D consumer decided to stick with World of Darkness products...

Seanchai

Without the OGL those projects don't exist, it's less profitable to be a freelancer, and a lot of great designers never even get their break in the industry. That's bad for the industry, bad for WotC, and bad for you as a gamer.

 

[Seanchai]

I'd wait for close of business Monday to worry about the Rouse or Linnae not posting a reply to this thread or some other.

Yeah. Getting worried because a 9 to 5 employee hasn't made an official response on an unofficial forum over the weekend is taking it just a bit too far...

Seanchai

 

[DaveMage]

Nevertheless, it is in the publishers' best interests to convince the public to put pressure on WotC to release the GSL. It's great that you say you would never speak out against something for personal gain, but I don't know you personally, I live a commerical society, and the bad guys claim to be personally offended, too, in order to sell products or smooth over ruffled feathers.

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.


But, seriously, if there's anyone here I'd trust to be above-board with regard to this subject, it's Clark Peterson. If anyone would have a good relationship with WotC it would be him, and the fact that *he* is worried says volumes.

 

[Andre]

Really, all this thread needs is a WotC employee to drop by and say "Calm down everyone. There's is going to be a GSL, and while we're still nailing down the details and it is going to be more restrictive than the OGL, we're sure it's going to allow most people to do everything they want to with 4e."

It's possible they just haven't noticed this thread (it being the weekend), but I think the likelihood they haven't drops significantly with each passing day. And since they have reassured the community there will be a GSL in the past, at some point their silence becomes a de facto admission that it's now not certain.

Given that this thread began when a WOTC employee posted a fairly innocuous statement which others have chosen to interpret in the most pessimistic way, WOTC should stay far, far away from this thread. Until they announce the GSL, based on what I've seen the last two days, they should just avoid the whole subject.

 

[catsclaw]

Given that this thread began when a WOTC employee posted a fairly innocuous statement which others have chosen to interpret in the most pessimistic way, WOTC should stay far, far away from this thread. Until they announce the GSL, based on what I've seen the last two days, they should just avoid the whole subject.

Wow. That's about the exact opposite advice you get from PR professionals. The worst thing you can do in these situations is stop talking to your customers.

 

[catsclaw]

Yes. But it also creates additional players in the marketplace. (I would say "additional competitors," but they're not really.) And these additional companies can adversely affect D&D's image (i.e., Book of Erotic Fantasy).

Everyone expects the GSL is going to be more restrictive. The d20 license prevents the Book of Erotic Fantasy, for example. And products that are most likely to cannibalize WotC sales--namely incompatible game systems (Mutants and Masterminds, Spycraft)--are very likely to be prohibited as well.

Except it doesn't draw in more customers. What we've got is what we've got.

What's your basis for saying this? I know one of the major considerations behind the OGL was to expand the size of the market by keeping people playing RPGs beyond the time they usually leave the hobby.

Publishers complain all the time about not everyone in a group picking up a core rulebook ... third party publishers don't sell as much as WotC does ... not everyone exposed to and favorable toward Paizo products will pick up another company's product ... would WotC even notice if reality got bent and all the Paizo-driven sales suddenly went away?

You're missing the forest for the trees. There are two major misconceptions people keep making about the RPG market:

First, that it's zero-sum. It's not. Owing the Book of Iron Might does not significantly diminish the value of owning the Complete Warrior. If anything, it enhances it--if I'm trying to build a warrior, having twice as many options is worth more than double the cost. And the number of people who only have $30 to spend and have to choose between the two is not really that great.

Second, that WotC would benefit by driving the independent publishers out of existence. You can't get an effective monopoly in the RPG market. Ignoring the fact that it would be nearly impossible to hold, people aren't forced to choose between RPG X and RPG Y. They're choosing between RPG X, and MMO Y, and movie Z, and cosplay, and board games, and just getting drunk in a bar. And WotC has market research showing that once people stop playing RPGs, it's nearly impossible to get them to start playing again. They get invested in Axis and Allies or the raid schedule for their Level 70 Dwarf Hunter, and no longer have the time.

Even if the OGL costs WotC money--and I'm certain it does not--it's a sound investment in the future of the industry.

 

[Andre]

Wow. That's about the exact opposite advice you get from PR professionals. The worst thing you can do in these situations is stop talking to your customers.

Normally I would agree, but notice - I didn't say they shouldn't talk to their customers. Just that they shouldn't touch this subject until they are ready to make their announcement. The only thing that will stop all the speculation is a clear statement from WOTC concerning what the GSL will and won't allow (in other words, their announcement).

Trying to post calm, non-sensational comments hasn't worked. In fact, it seems to have the opposite effect. This particular thread will die out soon, unless WOTC feeds it. Other threads may be opened on the subject, but without anything new from WOTC, they will just have the same old conjectures and will also die out.

 

[SSquirrel]

There's a thread on the Paizo boards where Eric Mona solicited the opinions of Paizo customers on whether they should switch to 4e or remain 3.5. Check it out. There's a lot of people swearing they'll never switch to 4e, and a smaller number saying they're switching and are going to stop playing 3.5 altogether. But there's a not insignificant percentage saying they'll switch if Paizo does.

Paizo's sticking to the 3.5 OGL, and all those potential 4e customers aren't switching.

Paizo is taking the 3.5OGl, pumping up the base classes, creating more work to be able to continue using your 3.5 adventures and other books you already own. They're doing this b/c they don't feel the core classes match up to later released classes. If the alpha stays anything like it is now, it's not making anything easier on the buying customer.

You should also know that a thread on the internet is not a representative portion of the customer base. There are ALWAYS people who swear up and down they will never buy X and then you ask them 2 months after X has been released and they're quite happily playing it. It's like trusting internet polls, esp ones that don't allow you to require people be logged in to an account to participate in *wink*