D&D 5E WotC will likely be making a dedicated Psion class, as per recent tweets

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
I think that's up to each fan to decide.

Well, yes. That is why I said you'd have to ask yourself.

For me, it's probably about the settings more than the game.

Interesting.

There are much better RPGs out there I could be playing.

Very interesting.

Maybe we should also have a clearer understanding of what constitutes or not a big tent, after all. People keep saying that "big tent doesn't mean it gets to be everything for everyone"

"Big Tent: a group or organization that has a widely inclusive composition or character"

A big tent is a place that allows for lots of different kinds of people. The big tent is a place where two people of highly different outlooks can coexist. The big tent gives you the basics of what you need, while allowing you room to be yourself.

The Big Tent Game idea arose in a specific context, and if you leave that behind, miss the point of it, and ensure your disappointment. The point arose in the wake of the 3e/4e edition wars - the idea was to produce a game that 3e players would find good enough, and 4e players would find good enough.

Just like you - which is why I thought those things were interesting - it isn't your favorite game, but you can agree upon it enough to play it and have fun!

That, right there, is the essence of the big tent - not that each and every one of us will find everything we want - but that each of us can find enough of what we want to still have fun. It is about the essence of the overall experience, not about the details.

...but let's be honest: the idea of a 5e big tent was important as part of the playtest effort and lingered for a few years as a promise for the future.

And, I think they honestly believed that, at the time. I think that was the plan. But no plan survives contact with reality intact. Reality is, they can't produce all those things, but keep the game scope and publication cycle down to sustainable rates.

Now, does 5e's tent gets to be called a big one just because a lot of people are playing it?

When "a lot of people" seems to be "more than at any time since the 1980s"... yeah. Because you probably don't get that many people who are all the same type. That many people, your game has to be pretty cross-niche.

Does it really support various playing/DMing styles?

Well enough that they can agree to play it, yes. That's the key you seem to be missing, though you yourself attest to having done it. Gaming is a social activity. And in very few social activities does everyone get exactly what they want. The key to successful social activity is compromise - nobody gets everything they want, but everyone gets enough of what they want. That's sustainable.

Funny enough, I'm not saying all that because 5e is not keeping me entertained now. But we are 5.5 years into the edition and I cannot look at the last UA on psionics and not get worried. The message I got from it is: "Ok, at first they told you this ship would eventually sail some different waters, but now it's making too much money by always traveling the same route, and you should drop from it if you want to go somewhere else".

I think, then, that you completely misunderstand what UA is, and what its playtest material represents. It is NOT a statement of where they are going. It is an EXPERIMENT - they demonstrably listen to the playtest feedback, and adjust plans accordingly.

Once more: that's a pity. I still see a lot of potential on the basic 5e engine. If WotC keeps failing to deliver the big tent, it's not because the core game cannot support it.

As noted above - they have already delivered the big tent.

Also, related, I think you may have forgotten one of the biggest lessons of RPG history - Do. Not. Split. Your. Audience. Build a game where disparate individuals can go off and play in their little, insular corners, and your audience is split. Each sub-group will expect full support for its little niche, and as we have seen, that's not viable. A successful Big Tent game keeps us all together, rather than sending us off into little sub-groups.


Where we were not even considering PF2 two weeks ago, we're now being remembered that Paizo has at least shown some willingness to iterate and innovate upon their basic game in the past. That's more than you can say about WotC for more than five years now.

Here, you say they aren't willing to iterate and innovate, but when they do experiments in UA, you get "worried" about "statements". You do realize that this kind of approach makes it impossible to please you?

By the way - history: in the time it has taken Pathfinder to get around to doing one major overhaul of its core, D&D has done two. If your takeaway is that Pathfinder is more willing to experiment... well, you take that away, then.
 

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Coroc

Hero
....

As written, I don't feel like 5e supports more than a single playing style, the one made possible by RAW PHB. Besides that, it pays lip service to a promise of diverse gameplay with 15-20 pages of the Dungeon Master's Guide.

...

I really have to disagree on that with you. My games look no way like those they do on the official PAX x
conventions with Perkins himself as DM. And that has nothing to do with the three pillars RP combat and exploration. I also have them in my game. I just use them differently.
You are right in single playing style if you go for the 8 combat / long rest. Then you really need to let things through like Perkins does. Then you cannot deviate much from RAW But:

5e supports so much more if you just read the 1 thing in RAW that really matters:
"House rule as thou wilt shall be the only law."

It is like that. Think for yourself. You need a Warlord? Take the Battlemaster or Bard as a baseline and mod the heck out of it.

You need epic levels? Go for it. It is not so hard to think on what attributes and meta attributes still could rise at level >20. Of course you need to invent some stronger mobs also.

You want an instant-to-play packet by buying official stuff?
5e is probably the first edition where that more or less works even if you do not alter a single letter of their official stuff. But then it will only contain to the single letter what you bought.
But you are in no way limited to it, that is for sure.
 

Aldarc

Legend
I don't remember psionic classes for Pathfinder or 5th Ed. but Dreamscarred Press.
Paizo came out with Occult Adventures, which provided psychic classes (e.g., psychic, kineticist, medium, mesmerist, etc.) . They were not called psionic, partially because they did not want to step on the design space that Dreamscarred Press occupied. These classes were popular enough that the Occult power source was incorporated in to PF2 and the Bard became an Occult caster.
 


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