D&D 5E WotC's Jeremy Crawford on D&D Races Going Forward

On Twitter, Jeremy Crawford discussed the treatment of orcs, Vistani, drow and others in D&D, and how WotC plans to treat the idea of 'race' in D&D going forward. In recent products (Eberron and Wildemount), the mandatory evil alignment was dropped from orcs, as was the Intelligence penalty.

@ThinkingDM Look at the treatment orcs received in Eberron and Exandria. Dropped the Intelligence debuff and the evil alignment, with a more acceptable narrative. It's a start, but there's a fair argument for gutting the entire race system.

The orcs of Eberron and Wildemount reflect where our hearts are and indicate where we’re heading.

@vorpaldicepress I hate to be "that guy", but what about Drow, Vistani, and the other troublesome races and cultures in Forgotten Realms (like the Gur, another Roma-inspired race)? Things don't change over night, but are these on the radar?

The drow, Vistani, and many other folk in the game are on our radar. The same spirit that motivated our portrayal of orcs in Eberron is animating our work on all these peoples.

@MileyMan1066 Good. These problems need to be addressed. The variant features UA could have a sequel that includes notes that could rectify some of the problems and help move 5e in a better direction.

Addressing these issues is vital to us. Eberron and Wildemount are the first of multiple books that will face these issues head on and will do so from multiple angles.

@mbriddell I'm happy to hear that you are taking a serious look at this. Do you feel that you can achieve this within the context of Forgotten Realms, given how establised that world's lore is, or would you need to establish a new setting to do this?

Thankfully, the core setting of D&D is the multiverse, with its multitude of worlds. We can tell so many different stories, with different perspectives, in each world. And when we return to a world like FR, stories can evolve. In short, even the older worlds can improve.

@SlyFlourish I could see gnolls being treated differently in other worlds, particularly when they’re a playable race. The idea that they’re spawned hyenas who fed on demon-touched rotten meat feels like they’re in a different class than drow, orcs, goblins and the like. Same with minotaurs.

Internally, we feel that the gnolls in the MM are mistyped. Given their story, they should be fiends, not humanoids. In contrast, the gnolls of Eberron are humanoids, a people with moral and cultural expansiveness.

@MikeyMan1066 I agree. Any creature with the Humanoid type should have the full capacity to be any alignmnet, i.e., they should have free will and souls. Gnolls... the way they are described, do not. Having them be minor demons would clear a lot of this up.

You just described our team's perspective exactly.

As a side-note, the term 'race' is starting to fall out of favor in tabletop RPGs (Pathfinder has "ancestry", and other games use terms like "heritage"); while he doesn't comment on that specifically, he doesn't use the word 'race' and instead refers to 'folks' and 'peoples'.

 

[Haldrik]

As the world changes around D&D, I feel any hypothetical "new" edition of the game is going to end up far more radically different than 5e's "evergreen" mentality wants. I do not see how "race" and "alignment" survive as concepts in a 6e. I am increasingly feeling even the classic ability scores and many (if not all) classes will not survive.

In light of todays WotC article (YAY!), there seems to be some reasonable solutions.

• Giving player empowerment to customize "race" (ethnicity, folk, people) helps resolve the "racist" predeterminism
• Alignment is a useful "description" even if a disruptive "prescription", it will continue to have merit for me
• I want reform for classic ability scores, but getting more customization over them, might soften urgency
• Classes (splitting versus lumping) is a dilemma for every edition

 

[Remathilis]

Much as I would love to see that come to pass, I don’t think WotC is that eager for a sacred barbecue so soon.

They may not have much choice in the matter. The prevailing winds may push them towards it sooner rather than later. Alignment has been a hot-button topic for decades and it has little value left mechanically and as an RP guide. There is a growing voice about how ability scores are ableist (esp the mental ones like Intelligence) and there has long been a call to change or remove stereotypical classes like barbarian, druid and monk (making them subclasses or equivalent).

I don't see this happening in 2022, but the next D&D might not be the subtle refinement of 5e WotC has promised.

 

[Haldrik]

You know, with everything this is about, I'd love to see more to do with friendships and relationships in game, irrespective of who they are with. Not simply influencing spells, but about creating genuine friendships in game, swaying others through conviction or example of a different path, encouraging villains or rivals to go on a more nuanced development of character, things like that.

I am wondering about having every player play two characters. They can be a couple, two buddies, a parent and kid, even a pet. It might help actualize the sense of inworld relationships.

Turns might take longer, circling twice around.

Thoughts?

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

I stand corrected. Straight White American Male is the most advantaged demographic on the planet.

Yes, and as a straight white man, I apologize for this to everyone who is not. No one should be mistreated because of who they are.

 

[Minigiant]

Hopefully when WOTC hires some BIPOC writers they will make some official class subclasses based of North American, South American, African, and Middle East, South, and South East Asian heroic archetypes.

This way these ideas can come in the game not draped on a monster statblock and avoid racism.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

It literally is. I am an Asian American. I know enough American history to know that most white Americans came to this country to flee religious or ethnic persecution or extreme poverty. Just like my ancestors only a generation before me.

My ancestors did come to America to flee religious suppression, but I got a boost. White people in America had the advantage of being fairly easily accepted into American community because they were white. (Yes, I know there are exceptions to this, but this is in general.)

Take an African American or Chinese person, though. Paid next to nothing, or nothing. Bad homes and apartments. Barely any way to support their families, just because they were a different race. We blocked them from voting so they couldn't change this, and a ton of other political suppression that put them at a disadvantage.

As a strait white male, I know that I have an advantage. Asians have an advantage nowadays as well after the propoganda that we spread about them being "Model Immigrants". We still haven't stopped suppressing African Americans, Hispanics, Middle Easterners, and so on.

 

[Charlaquin]

They may not have much choice in the matter. The prevailing winds may push them towards it sooner rather than later. Alignment has been a hot-button topic for decades and it has little value left mechanically and as an RP guide. There is a growing voice about how ability scores are ableist (esp the mental ones like Intelligence) and there has long been a call to change or remove stereotypical classes like barbarian, druid and monk (making them subclasses or equivalent).

Granted, but they’ve been burned badly by changing too much too fast, and not that long ago. Maybe the rapidly-growing base of new players will make them bold enough to try again, but the cynic in me doubts it. Here’s hoping I’m wrong.

I don't see this happening in 2022, but the next D&D might not be the subtle refinement of 5e WotC has promised.

I hope you’re right, but color me skeptical.

 

[Umbran]

(But, crucially, a person who is significantly less privileged can notice "Orcs" trending on Twitter, find this site on Google, make an account, and post here saying how offended they are, without having to have actually played, all in about a half hour

Mod Note:
I am sorry to burst your bubble, but currently more "new account with first post to trash talk in this thread" are folks saying they don't like Crawford's announcement.

It is not your job to vet posters. Stop acting like it is, please.

 

[Umbran]

D&D was created by racist Gary Gyxgax. That means it is systematically racist and should be banned altogether. Anyone who enjoys it is also racist.

Mod Note:

You are done in this thread. And, you've earned yourself several days away from EN World.

Anyone else wanna be a flagrant troll? We can give you a week off or a permanent vacation from the site.

Use better sense, people.

 

[Ash Mantle]

I am wondering about having every player play two characters. They can be a couple, two buddies, a parent and kid, even a pet. It might help actualize the sense of inworld relationships.

Turns might take longer, circling twice around.

Thoughts?

That's an excellent idea, truth to be told! It might also give greater meaning and depth to current "sidekicks" as well, although I'm not really fond of the meaning behind that term. And it might also help get the roleplaying juices going if either the player or the DM plays the other character, encouraging the player and/or the DM bounce off the other.