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Would you use Armor as DR Why? Why use it for AC?
- Thread starter DonTadow
- Start date
Raven Crowking
First Post
Don,
Your question is a pretty general one. That might be why it didn't get replies.
Nonetheless, for me the big benefits are that armor is now modelled better (it gets damaged and has to be repaired/replaced) and it is now more significant (low- or no-armor classes are more distinct as a result). I'm not 100% sure about long-term effects (yet), but it goes without saying that if you give your PCs DR, high-damage hits become more important.
RC
Oh, here's another important difference: If a shield gives DR based upon what it is made of, buying a steel shield (rather than a wooden one) now makes sense. Actually, using an AC + DR model means that a shield makes a whole lot more sense!
Your question is a pretty general one. That might be why it didn't get replies.
Nonetheless, for me the big benefits are that armor is now modelled better (it gets damaged and has to be repaired/replaced) and it is now more significant (low- or no-armor classes are more distinct as a result). I'm not 100% sure about long-term effects (yet), but it goes without saying that if you give your PCs DR, high-damage hits become more important.
RC
Oh, here's another important difference: If a shield gives DR based upon what it is made of, buying a steel shield (rather than a wooden one) now makes sense. Actually, using an AC + DR model means that a shield makes a whole lot more sense!
DonTadow
First Post
Would you consider using different masterworks, IE in the Black Company they have a system where there is no "simple masterwork". Instead you can pay crafters extra money to add benefits to their crafting, for instance making it lighter (faster initiative) or having it seep poison?Raven Crowking said:
Raven Crowking
First Post
DonTadow said:
As I continue to answer these questions, you will begin to realize just how much I am willing to take ideas from all and sundry and then cobble them together.
For Craft skills, I am using a step system, including the "better than masterwork" steps from Advanced GM's Guide, modified by the ideas in the Midieval Player's Handbook (highly recommended if you are into this sort of thing!). On top of this, I added two "worse than normal" levels: Apprentice-level and Journeyman-level goods. Your default craftsmanship depends upon your ranks in the Craft skill, with an option to salvage a botched job by dropping it one level or trying to do your best (i.e., creating goods one level over your base) in the same way that one makes a masterwork good in the standard craft skill.
I have another, add-on, system where characters can learn "secrets" of various sorts as they gain levels. Thus, a character could learn the secret of sliding rivits, allowing her to make armor that gives you a higher Max Dex Bonus (for example).
Like I said, I like to give players lots of choices.
RC
DonTadow
First Post
With all these rules, do you compile them in a book of some sorts? I'd love to look at them. Sigh, now youve given me another book i must buy. Damn my pcs for destroying magic.Raven Crowking said:As I continue to answer these questions, you will begin to realize just how much I am willing to take ideas from all and sundry and then cobble them together.
For Craft skills, I am using a step system, including the "better than masterwork" steps from Advanced GM's Guide, modified by the ideas in the Midieval Player's Handbook (highly recommended if you are into this sort of thing!). On top of this, I added two "worse than normal" levels: Apprentice-level and Journeyman-level goods. Your default craftsmanship depends upon your ranks in the Craft skill, with an option to salvage a botched job by dropping it one level or trying to do your best (i.e., creating goods one level over your base) in the same way that one makes a masterwork good in the standard craft skill.
I have another, add-on, system where characters can learn "secrets" of various sorts as they gain levels. Thus, a character could learn the secret of sliding rivits, allowing her to make armor that gives you a higher Max Dex Bonus (for example).
Like I said, I like to give players lots of choices.
RC
Primitive Screwhead
First Post
RC, I would like to see your craft options.. I like the Black Company expanded masterwork and the idea of degraded gear has always been something I thought lacking in the rules..
On to the OP..
I ran a game with Armor converting damage and WP/VP.. eventually dropped it as my group was still working on how to calculate a TWF flurry of blows
Also, the mechanic favored high con natural armor things like most monsters. THe group ran across a small, wounded Carcass Crab and came very close to dying against the CR-3 encounter....
Its a mechanic I prefer as it makes armor mean more, can make the characters last longer.. but has setting implications. In a mainly humanoid vs humanoid setting ala LOTR it can be wonderful.
On to the OP..
I ran a game with Armor converting damage and WP/VP.. eventually dropped it as my group was still working on how to calculate a TWF flurry of blows
Also, the mechanic favored high con natural armor things like most monsters. THe group ran across a small, wounded Carcass Crab and came very close to dying against the CR-3 encounter....
Its a mechanic I prefer as it makes armor mean more, can make the characters last longer.. but has setting implications. In a mainly humanoid vs humanoid setting ala LOTR it can be wonderful.
DonTadow
First Post
I was thinking about that. I can't remember which book it was, but one of them said to lower DR of monsters by 5. I think it was iron heroes.Primitive Screwhead said:RC, I would like to see your craft options.. I like the Black Company expanded masterwork and the idea of degraded gear has always been something I thought lacking in the rules..
On to the OP..
I ran a game with Armor converting damage and WP/VP.. eventually dropped it as my group was still working on how to calculate a TWF flurry of blows
Also, the mechanic favored high con natural armor things like most monsters. THe group ran across a small, wounded Carcass Crab and came very close to dying against the CR-3 encounter....
Its a mechanic I prefer as it makes armor mean more, can make the characters last longer.. but has setting implications. In a mainly humanoid vs humanoid setting ala LOTR it can be wonderful.
Nyaricus
First Post
*sigh*
I too am in the boat that armour as AC doesn't make sense - convincing my group to think this way has been a bit of a battle. We are almost set to start a campaign "a la LOTR" (my campaign setting, which models itself off LotR a lot, along with real life mythology, folklore, legends and the such) and I finally got the group to try this system. It wont be a human vs humanoid world, as I will still have many monsters whihc are straigh out of earths myths and such (ever heard of a boobrie? they are nasty buggers, at least the ones i crafted
:evilsmiley: ) anyways, i would love to hear more feedback - particualily about CR. I am ommiting whole sections of the Monster Manuel for this campaign, as many are just silly, made-up monsters (read: contemporary monsters which have no basis in a Tolkien-esque world) that wouldn't fit.
Anyways, enough of my ranting; but RC i'd love to see a campaign book written out by you! dammit, you are probably one of the best worldbuilders here! Ever considered joining the GMF?? There's an interesting thread twhere you can share your homebrew - just be sure to sign up in the new members thread first.
I too am in the boat that armour as AC doesn't make sense - convincing my group to think this way has been a bit of a battle. We are almost set to start a campaign "a la LOTR" (my campaign setting, which models itself off LotR a lot, along with real life mythology, folklore, legends and the such) and I finally got the group to try this system. It wont be a human vs humanoid world, as I will still have many monsters whihc are straigh out of earths myths and such (ever heard of a boobrie? they are nasty buggers, at least the ones i crafted
:evilsmiley: ) anyways, i would love to hear more feedback - particualily about CR. I am ommiting whole sections of the Monster Manuel for this campaign, as many are just silly, made-up monsters (read: contemporary monsters which have no basis in a Tolkien-esque world) that wouldn't fit.Anyways, enough of my ranting; but RC i'd love to see a campaign book written out by you! dammit, you are probably one of the best worldbuilders here! Ever considered joining the GMF?? There's an interesting thread twhere you can share your homebrew - just be sure to sign up in the new members thread first.
Raven Crowking
First Post
DonTadow said:
I am actually working on the definitive compiled book as we "speak".
RC
Aus_Snow
First Post
Armour as DR is best paired with a base defense bonus (i.e., dodge bonus) option, I believe.
In a low-magic campaign of mine (the 'insanely' house-ruled one), there's armour as pure DR, base defense as 1/2 BAB, called shots, and a whole bunch of other things besides (including item deterioration and grades of craftsmanship etc.) It's going great, thus far.
Personally, I think a called shot system of sorts is also required when standard armour can provide DR 8/-, or even greater. Otherwise, there is literally no way a (standard) dagger wielded by someone of average strength can do *any* damage to the wearer of say, full plate (even with a critical - i.e., even with a coup de grace for that matter). And so on.
In a low-magic campaign of mine (the 'insanely' house-ruled one), there's armour as pure DR, base defense as 1/2 BAB, called shots, and a whole bunch of other things besides (including item deterioration and grades of craftsmanship etc.) It's going great, thus far.
Personally, I think a called shot system of sorts is also required when standard armour can provide DR 8/-, or even greater. Otherwise, there is literally no way a (standard) dagger wielded by someone of average strength can do *any* damage to the wearer of say, full plate (even with a critical - i.e., even with a coup de grace for that matter). And so on.
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