Would you use Armor as DR Why? Why use it for AC?

[Cabral]

I prefer the Unearthed Arcana version where half your AC bonus (round down) is shift to DR. (So studded leather goes from AC +3 to AC +2, DR 1/- and full plate goes from AC +8 to AC +4, DR 4/-)

 

[Aus_Snow]

I was using that method for a while too. It worked fine. In the end though, I (and the players) wanted one or the other. So DR it is (for that campaign).


edit --- It's good to see the Medieval Player's Manual getting a mention. Very good book, I agree.

 

[Nyaricus]

hmmm, base defense bonus - I was weary of this untill i saw that Iron Heroes used it. Damn that book took the standard PHB and made it look like a chew toy.

I shall seriously think of using that as a HR.

and i *guess* i will have to buy this medieval handbook that everyone's talking about. Please tell me it can be bought at my friendly local gaming store and isn't just a pdf. Please.

 

[Stalker0]

The reason why Dnd doesn't use Armor as DR? Because that would take away certain options from the game.

Dnd tries to give every combat style a shot. In real life, if you have full plate and a greatsword versus a guy in leather and dagger, the guy in leather is toast. Even if the leather guy is significantly more skilled it doesn't matter.

But in dnd the light fighter vs heavy fighter option is supposed to be viable. In normal Dnd, the basic factor in dealing damage is the to hit mod. A guy with a dagger can do damage with a good to hit mod, and with a great mod can actually wind up doing more damage than a greatsword guy who has a lesser attack mod.

Dr changes that. The lower your base damage, the more DR hurts you. Greatswords barely feel a DR 1/-. To daggers that's a 25% reduction in damage. OUCH!!!

 

[Aus_Snow]

The reason why Dnd doesn't use Armor as DR? Because that would take away certain options from the game.

No, it's just that the game designers chose to stick with the old AD&D combat system, for the most part (IMO). See my previous post re: called shots (such as in A Game of Thrones OGL, by Guardians of Order). Equally, the AP system from Conan OGL, by Mongoose Publishing, serves that purpose. D&D doesn't have the (IMO) required kinds of balancing factors built in, for obvious reasons.

In real life, if you have full plate and a greatsword versus a guy in leather and dagger, the guy in leather is toast. Even if the leather guy is significantly more skilled it doesn't matter.

Not at all, I would say (at least not every time). By all means though, support your claim with some kind of evidence - it might help somewhat.

 

[monboesen]

and it is now more significant (low- or no-armor classes are more distinct as a result)

This assumption only holds true at low levels. Even DR 8/- from a full plate has little effect if you are fighting giants, huge dragons and so on. These types of monsters do so much damage on each attack that even subtrating 8 points is less protection than increasing your AC by 8 (and thereby reducing their chance of hitting about 40 %).

In fact they might just power attack by those 8 points of AC that you no longer gain from your armor and if they use two handed weapons they will be much better off than in the standard system. The same goes for higher level fighter types with two handed weapons.

Lets assume a 10th level fightertype, str 18 with power attack and a two handed sword (+14/+9 for 2d6+6). Against a full plate clad foe in the standard system (AC 18) he will hit on a 4 and a 9, thats 17/20+12/20 = 29/20 = 1,45 times per round doing (2*3,5)+6 = 13 points of damage. Thats 1,45*13 = 18,85 points of damage per round.

The same fighter in the armor as DR system (AC 10) will power attack by 8. So he hits with the same frequency (1,45). But his damage is now (2*3,5)+6+2*8(from power attack) = 29. So each round he does an average of 1,45*(29-8) = 30,45 points of damage.

So the full plate provides far less protection than in the standard system.

So in effect it makes combat versus medium sized foes and low levels less deadly. But combat versus large big hitters and at higher level far more deadly. I'm not saying that it is wrong or unrealistic but its something that fundementally changes the game.

 

[XeviatTranion]

the only way it can be fair to finesse/light warriors is if you introduce greater finesse feats that grant extra damage (I favor Int bonus as precision damage as a BAB +4 feat off of weapon finesse myself), and to have critical hits ignore armor DR. Otherwise the dagger fighter isn't going to win against the full plate fighter.

Which is sad; I really like the system (half AC as DR), but I don't think I can impliment it.

 

[DonTadow]

Havn't both Skip and Monte inputed armor as dr for their respective new settings (the arrgonaugts and iron heroes?)

 

[Aazenius]

This assumption only holds true at low levels. Even DR 8/- from a full plate has little effect if you are fighting giants, huge dragons and so on. These types of monsters do so much damage on each attack that even subtrating 8 points is less protection than increasing your AC by 8 (and thereby reducing their chance of hitting about 40 %).

In fact they might just power attack by those 8 points of AC that you no longer gain from your armor and if they use two handed weapons they will be much better off than in the standard system. The same goes for higher level fighter types with two handed weapons.

I like Iron Heroes solution to this problem. Damage reduction isn't a flat number. Full plate isn't DR 8/- it's DR 1d8/magic, dagger wielders at least have a chance in this system. They also use a Defense system that goes up as you level. So a 10th level fighter like the one you used in your exampled, would have a base defense of +7 giving them an AC of 17. This base defense number goes up to +15 at level 20.

 

[monboesen]

I like Iron Heroes solution to this problem.

So do I. Acutally I don't intend to ever play D&D again, now that I have Iron Heroes. It fits my groups style of gaming and mine as a DM infinitely better than vanilla D&D.

That said armor still tends to get a non-issue in Iron heroes as levels fly by. We will likely end up increasing the DR of heavy armors to make them viable.