WoW and 4e - where's the beef?

[Rechan]

It's as if people don't get what "feels like" means. Or pretend they don't so they can argue about it.

It's as if people don't get what "is just like" means. or pretend they don't so they can argue about it.

 

[Zil]

What? There aren't any level prerequisites on gear in 4e.

Yes, you are certainly correct. My bad there. It's been too many months since we last played 4E and my memory of the treasure parceling guidelines turned out to be fuzzier than I would have liked.

Giving a DM-controlled monster a penalty to hit is like using high-threat maneuvers (which would be what in D&D?) over and over so that other characters' actions don't top your threat level on a programmed monster's threat table?

I didn't say it was an identical system, but the mechanic attempts to achieve the same thing, i.e. draw off attacks to one person. Also, I don't think this is necessarily a bad mechanic for the game. I remember playing 1E games in the past (the much distant past now) and getting very annoyed with the DM deciding that all monsters would always attack the lower AC wizard and ignore all of the other players. At least with 4E marking it gives the players a bit more control over the battlefield.

 

[mmu1]

It's as if people don't get what "is just like" means. or pretend they don't so they can argue about it.

I don't see many people here claiming anything is "just like" WoW except the ones on the "4E is nothing like WoW" side putting words into others' mouths, because they are badly in need of a convenient strawman.

 

[Rechan]

I don't see many people here claiming anything is "just like" WoW except the ones on the "4E is nothing like WoW" side putting words into others' mouths, because they are badly in need of a convenient strawman.

I have had it said at my game table, no less. I wrote the OP after someone said it in a chatroom I was in. Are you calling me a liar?

 

[malraux]

I'm not an expert on WoW, but having played a decent amount of Guild Wars in my time, I can say that it feels very similar. You have your powers you can spam more or less all the time, your powers that you can pull off periodically in the fight, and powers that you can only pull off once in a fight, all achieved via cooldowns. Obviously 4e scales it slightly differently (and for all I know, WoW might too), but it still seems very comparable to me.

Sounds a fair amount like the way monsters work. But of course, people aren't using that to describe how DMing feels.

 

[AllisterH]

I don't see many people here claiming anything is "just like" WoW except the ones on the "4E is nothing like WoW" side putting words into others' mouths, because they are badly in need of a convenient strawman.

I guess this is directed at me but I honestly don't see how cooldown is anything like Encounter type power.

Otherwise, one coul argue that any 1 per day power from D&D is analogus to a power with a cooldown of 24 hours.

In a fight with say a Boss battle, you don't think there is a big difference between the fact that the PCs in WoW can stagger their talents based on their respective CDs yet the 4e PCs cant and in fact, is actually considered a skill in knowing how to stagger CD powers?

The only similarity between cooldown powers and encounter powers is that every fight, assuming there is a 5 minute rest inbetween, the pc in both WoW and 4e start off with the same options. Whereas pre 3e, only the non-spellcasters started every fight fresh in terms of resources.

In terms of feeling, I have stated multiple times that the best comparison is to Strategy RPGS like Disgaea and FFT. Comparing 4e to WoW makes no sense since I play both WoW, Disgaea and 4e so why should MY "feelings" be discounted?

 

[Fanaelialae]

I don't think anyone here is saying "4e is nothing like WoW" in that sense (as in there is 0.0000% resemblance between the two).

WoW is a fantasy MMORPG (yes, while it is far from common, you can occasionally find good RP in WoW, if you know where to look and have some luck) whereas 4e is a fantasy TTRPG. The point being, they're both fantasy RPGs. Of course they are going to have similarities. The point of debate, so to speak, is whether that resemblance is of any greater significance than the similarity WoW has to most other fantasy RPGs.

You can say that you feel 4e is very WoW-like because encounter powers feel like cooldowns to you.

I can say that I feel that that doesn't feel very WoW-ish to me because I feel that cooldown powers like dragon's breath (from earlier editions) feel to capture the cooldown concept much better for me.

This might well be colored by the fact that a friend of mine created a TTRPG last year that was mechanically very similar to WoW (complete with aggro "meters" and real cooldowns). Unsurprisingly, it proved less than completely successful, though it wasn't entirely unfun to playtest. I've experience with WoW, 4e, and even a TTRPG that tried to do what WoW does as WoW does it, and that no doubt affects my viewpoint.

When people talk about a "feeling" they're expressing an opinion, and while we can debate those opinions until we are all blue in the face, there's nothing to be gained by getting upset over not having changed someone else's opinion. It's their opinion.

YMMV

 

[Jack99]

What I think is interesting though is that, at the time of this posting, 22% of the voters have played WoW, and think 4e is like WoW.

Question is really, how many of those 22% have actually played 4e? >< Considering some of the posts in this thread, I am starting to wonder.

 

[mmu1]

I have had it said at my game table, no less. I wrote the OP after someone said it in a chatroom I was in. Are you calling me a liar?

Way to try to misdirect the discussion... again.

Sorry, but as can be clearly seen from the responses so far, no one really cares what someone said to you at your gaming table, when there's a somewhat broader issue at hand.

You decided to start a discussion about 4E and WoW here. So it'd be nice if you actually tried to have a conversation with the people here, rather than trying to dismiss every point of view that doesn't agree with yours by equating it to something stupid someone said to you during your game or in chat.

 

[mmu1]

Question is really, how many of those 22% have actually played 4e? >< Considering some of the posts in this thread, I am starting to wonder.

Are you calling people liars? Watch out, Rehan doesn't like that kind of thing...