D&D 5E Wow! No more subraces. The Players Handbook races reformat to the new race format going forward.

[Mind of tempest]

I wonder why we need a new elf of all things, but this is very telling about their likely direction.

 

[Minigiant]

I wonder why we need a new elf of all things, but this is very telling about their likely direction.

Probably because it one of the few PHB races with easy to recognize features, associated cultural proficiencies featured that could be altered, and understand as a variant in Planescape, Spelljammer, and Dark Sun.

Like I mentioned before the Dwarf is mostly cultural proficiencies and ability adjustments. And the other PHB outside of gnome haven't been stretched than far now enshrined in all those settings as well.

Elf is literally the best race to test racial ideas because 1000 elf subraces is already meme and elves are found in most D&D, D&D adjacent, and Real world fictional settings.

 

[Umbran]

I agree, but I do think it’s an indication of what they’re considering doing, provided the response is positive enough.

If you did the same in a core rulebook, you might be looking at doubling the space races take up, which seems wasteful. Pulling out, and not repeating, shared information is more efficient.

In supplements, I can see this, so that you don't have to refer back to the core every time, but in core rulebooks, the space is at a premium.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Probably because it one of the few PHB races with easy to recognize features, associated cultural proficiencies featured that could be altered, and understand as a variant in Planescape, Spelljammer, and Dark Sun.

Like I mentioned before the Dwarf is mostly cultural proficiencies and ability adjustments. And the other PHB outside of gnome haven't been stretched than far now enshrined in all those settings as well.

Elf is literally the best race to test racial ideas because 1000 elf subraces is already meme and elves are found in most D&D, D&D adjacent, and Real world fictional settings.

I see your reasoning, still would have cared for something else.

 

[Charlaquin]

If you did the same in a core rulebook, you might be looking at doubling the space races take up, which seems wasteful. Pulling out, and not repeating, shared information is more efficient.

In supplements, I can see this, so that you don't have to refer back to the core every time, but in core rulebooks, the space is at a premium.

Seems like good feedback.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

This isn't really news. The Dragonborn from Fizban's Treasury of Dragons (from what we've seen in both the UA and the preview of the Metallic Dragonborn) are already split up into 3 separate races, not really being subraces of the same race. And this is fine for most of the races, because most races only have 1-4 subraces. However, it could be a problem for Tieflings and Elves, because they have a ton of subraces. Elves have High Elves, Wood Elves, Dark Elves, Eladrin, Shadar-Kai, Sea Elves, Pallid Elves, and Mark of Shadow Elves, while Tieflings have 9 subraces; one for each layer of the Nine Hells (10 subraces if you include Feral Tieflings). That could get tedious.

 

[guachi]

I ditched subraces early on in my 5e DMing and told players that subrace has no meaning in-game and just pick the lump of stats that worked best. If nothing worked then we could swap roughly equivalent traits.

Personally, I'd love to see something done with humans to give them far more mechanical flavor than they already have.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

If you did the same in a core rulebook, you might be looking at doubling the space races take up, which seems wasteful. Pulling out, and not repeating, shared information is more efficient.

In supplements, I can see this, so that you don't have to refer back to the core every time, but in core rulebooks, the space is at a premium.

For the PHB it occurs to me there are enough subraces, especially if they add say the Genasi and Aasimar, to break the races chapter into racial families, like an Elf section where they give the universal Elven traits, then the unique traits for each Elf race.

 

[Charlaquin]

This isn't really news. The Dragonborn from Fizban's Treasury of Dragons (from what we've seen in both the UA and the preview of the Metallic Dragonborn) are already split up into 3 separate races, not really being subraces of the same race. And this is fine for most of the races, because most races only have 1-4 subraces. However, it could be a problem for Tieflings and Elves, because they have a ton of subraces. Elves have High Elves, Wood Elves, Dark Elves, Eladrin, Shadar-Kai, Sea Elves, Pallid Elves, and Mark of Shadow Elves, while Tieflings have 9 subraces; one for each layer of the Nine Hells (10 subraces if you include Feral Tieflings). That could get tedious.

Tiefling subraces only change what ability score gets a +1 and what spells you get from your Infernal Legacy. The former probably won’t be relevant any more in the Anniversary Editions, and the latter could be consolidated by letting you pick from a list. Either a class spell list (warlock seems fitting), or a handful of options like we see in the new UA’s Astral Elf. Alternatively, put them in a table like Dragonborn ancestries.

Archdevil	Cantrip	3rd lvl	5th lvl
Asmodeus	Thaumaturgy	Hellish Rebuke	Darkness
Baalzebul	Thaumaturgy	Ray of Sickness	Crown of Madness

etc.

Elf subraces… Are likely to be a bit trickier.

 

[Dragonsbane]

That's basically how Pathfinder 2 does it. In PF2, these are the traits common to all elf PCs:

• 6 hit points (this is a one-time adjustment, in addition to the N+Con bonus/level you get, and 6 is pretty low).
• Size Medium.
• Speed 30 ft (faster than average).
• Low-light vision.
• The common and elven languages, plus Int modifier languages chosen from a default list that can specifically be expanded by other languages available in your region.
• A boost (+2) to Dexterity and Intelligence as well as any one other stat, and a penalty (-2) to Constitution.

In addition to these, you choose a Heritage, which to some degree fills the same role as a 5e subrace, but on a smaller scale. These are (with some exceptions) not directly linked to any ethnical groups, though some are more common in some groups than others. These are the ones from the core book:

• Arctic Elf: Adapted to cold climates, get some cold resistance and reduce the effects of environmental cold.
• Cavern Elf: You gain darkvision.
• Seer Elf: Can cast Detect Magic at will, and get a bonus to identify magic or decipher writing on magic.
• Whisper Elf: Finely tuned hearing lets you Seek for invisible creatures in a larger area than normal, and with a bonus if they're within the normal area.
• Woodland Elf: Can climb faster in woodlands and has an easier time finding cover in woodlands terrain.

In addition to these, you also get to choose an ancestry feat. At higher levels, you get more ancestral feats, and access to more powerful ones. At 1st level, an elf using the core book can choose:

• Ancestral Longevity (requires 100+ years of age): Each day you can choose a skill to treat as Trained, as you recall skills you once learned but that now has mostly atrophied.
• Elven Lore: You become trained in Arcana, Nature, and Elf Lore.
• Elven Weapon Familiarity: You become trained in traditional elf weapons.
• Forlorn: Save bonus against emotion effects.
• Nimble Elf: +5 ft Speed.
• Otherworldly Magic: Learn an arcane cantrip you can cast at will.
• Unwavering Mien: Reduce the duration of Mental spells by 1 round, and gain a save bonus against sleep effects.

I really like this way of doing ancestries. The effect is that "elf" is a very wide umbrella, but it's still fairly distinct from "dwarf". And for outlier cases, there's a general feat you can take that unlocks another ancestry's feats for you, as long as those feats aren't based on that ancestry's physiology (as determined by the GM). For example, an elf with Adopted Ancestry (Orc) couldn't take the Tusks feat, because elves don't have tusks.

This. PF2 does race really really well. The subraces are just an ability. In my game a player chooses which ancestry and heritage he is for RP (Gormdawi (Mountain Dwarf) or Bryndawi (Hill Dwarf) for example) but their stats are the same, and any one of the heritage abilities can be chosen. Their lore is different and this suffices for RP.