D&D (2024) Wrapping up first 2-20 2024 campaign this week, some of my thoughts

[Zardnaar]

You're missing the point. It doesn't matter what DMs do. WotC has to go high so as to encompass as many different DM types as possible, so their adventures have way more than the baseline number of magic items.

There's no baseline is my main point.

 

[ECMO3]

Do you mean one of the alpha testers? Like he had to sign an NDA and everything? I used to be part of that, but it seems I was quietly dropped around the time of the revision. Anyway, if your DM has signed a playtesting NDA, then he can't legally share any playtest material with you unless you have also signed an NDA.

I did just get an email with some codes for testing out Sigil, though. Not sure if that's because I'm a Master tier DDB subscriber or what.

I don't know exactly because it is his thing, he did have to sign something. I do know he had the adventure before anyone else and he told us he was testing it. He offered to let me play in it, but it did not fit my schedule, I don't know if the people who did play had to sign something or not.

We did not start using 2024 rules in our home games until the early release date on D&D beyond.

 

[Maxperson]

There's no baseline is my main point.

We know that there is. It's no magic items. The quote was given upthread. Monsters and PCs are balanced against one another assuming no magic items.

 

[Hussar]

--- edit

Sorry, nothing to see here and I am not adding anything of value to this conversation.

 

[Zardnaar]

We know that there is. It's no magic items. The quote was given upthread. Monsters and PC are balanced against one another assuming no magic items.

Probably copy and paasted from 2014. The rules heavily suggest magic items are in the game. There own examples include them.

I think they don't expect specific numbers like 4E not 0 magic items. You dont need xyz to hit or xyz damage.

So it's typical ENworld nitpicking vs how people are actually playing.

New rules specifically assume they will be used even if it's just potions and scrolls

 

[Maxperson]

Probably copy and paasted from 2014. The rules heavily suggest magic items are in the game. There own examples include them.

Doesn't matter. We know from the get go that they assume no magic items. That's core to 5e and 5.5e. Magic items are pure bonus. As soon as the PCs get a single item, they are hitting harder against monsters than the game expects.

New rules specifically assume they will be used even if it's just potions and scrolls

Not any more than the old ones do. Yes, WotC expects you to give out magic items. No the game isn't balanced for them. Give them out and you are automatically unbalancing the game. If you don't rebalance on the DM side of things, you are going to be in for a bad time in combats.

 

[Zardnaar]

Doesn't matter. We know from the get go that they assume no magic items. That's core to 5e and 5.5e. Magic items are pure bonus. As soon as the PCs get a single item, they are hitting harder against monsters than the game expects.

Not any more than the old ones do. Yes, WotC expects you to give out magic items. No the game isn't balanced for them. Give them out and you are automatically unbalancing the game. If you don't rebalance on the DM side of things, you are going to be in for a bad time in combats.

And do you honestly think the majority of tables aren't using them?
. I suspect why they made them more explicit was because of Beyond/BG3.

You can also read that not required in various ways. 4E required them 5E doesn't but they're not saying the default is 0. There's no underlying math assumptions in 5E.

They dud include a full page chart on items by tier. ECMO3 isn't claiming his experiences was typical. I'm goofing around with curated lists atm seeing where the sweet spot.

They couldn't duplicate it in my games but I'm not saying my ways the one true way either it's DM dependent.

If anything I would argue by whatever you like quantity you like has been flawed since 3.0 introduced the idea.

 

[Maxperson]

Probably copy and paasted from 2014. The rules heavily suggest magic items are in the game. There own examples include them.

I think they don't expect specific numbers like 4E not 0 magic items. You dont need xyz to hit or xyz damage.

So it's typical ENworld nitpicking vs how people are actually playing.

New rules specifically assume they will be used even if it's just potions and scrolls

This is from the 2024 DMG.

"Are Magic Items Necessary?
The D&D game assumes that magic items appear sporadically and that they are a boon unless an item bears a curse. Characters and monsters are built to face each other without the help of magic items, which means that having a magic item makes a character more powerful or versatile than a generic character of the same level. As DM, you never have to worry about awarding magic items just so the characters can keep up with the campaign’s threats. Magic items are truly prizes—desirable but not necessary."

0 magic items is still the baseline assumption of 5e with regard to balance.

 

[Maxperson]

And do you honestly think the majority of tables aren't using them?

It doesn't matter. If they use them and don't increase monster difficulty, they are borking the game balance.

And yes, I expect the vast majority of tables use them.

 

[Zardnaar]

This is from the 2024 DMG.

"Are Magic Items Necessary?
The D&D game assumes that magic items appear sporadically and that they are a boon unless an item bears a curse. Characters and monsters are built to face each other without the help of magic items, which means that having a magic item makes a character more powerful or versatile than a generic character of the same level. As DM, you never have to worry about awarding magic items just so the characters can keep up with the campaign’s threats. Magic items are truly prizes—desirable but not necessary."

0 magic items is still the baseline assumption of 5e with regard to balance.

You missed the part the DM doesn't have to hand them out. Not don't put them in. You don't have to hand out comvat related ones. Coul be all healing potions for example.

4E has the treadmill effect. There's no underlying mathematical equation.