D&D 5E Xanathar’s Guide to Everything is the fastest-selling Dungeons & Dragons book of all time

[ad_hoc]

Well, true; but that does seem to be what the dude's argument was: 3E grossed more, so WotC is leave ng money on the table. When the business sense is, find the best balance for net.

Do we have data on that?

3.x also lasted 8 years and involved an updated version of all 3 core books (as well as others).

I suppose it's also leaving money on the table to not release a 5.5e to cash in on having people buy the core books again.

 

[Parmandur]

Do we have data on that?

3.x also lasted 8 years and involved an updated version of all 3 core books (as well as others).

I suppose it's also leaving money on the table to not release a 5.5e to cash in on having people buy the core books again.

No, we really don't, but that was the proposed hypothesis. No good reason to think it's true, and I like the current rate if release: thankfully, I am apparently not alone.

 

[Hussar]

But, that's not how business works.

Say it takes 20000 copies sold to break even on a book. I could sell 20000 copies of an infinite number of titles and never make a dime, even though my gross sales are infinite. And, in fact, that's largely what 3e and 4e looked like. You don't make 30 dollars on a 30 dollar book. WotC probably makes about 7 bucks on that book. So, 20k copies sold is 140k dollars, which, after you pay for everything, is probably close to break even.

3e and 4e, other than the core books, rarely saw sales much more than about 20-40k copies on any given book. Which meant that most of the books they were publishing were breaking even, but, not much more. In a publicly traded company with share holders, that's a problem.

5e, OTOH, has the goal of 100k copies of every single publication. And, by all accounts, they are meeting or exceeding that goal. Even with modules, which is practically unheard of since the fad years. But, the break even point for those books is still probably about 20k copies. Meaning that even though gross sales might be less in 5e, they are making far, far more profit.

It goes back to the old saw that selling two times as many copies of one book is far more profitable than regular sales of three books, even though the latter has sold 50% more books in total.

 

[Parmandur]

But, that's not how business works.

Say it takes 20000 copies sold to break even on a book. I could sell 20000 copies of an infinite number of titles and never make a dime, even though my gross sales are infinite. And, in fact, that's largely what 3e and 4e looked like. You don't make 30 dollars on a 30 dollar book. WotC probably makes about 7 bucks on that book. So, 20k copies sold is 140k dollars, which, after you pay for everything, is probably close to break even.

3e and 4e, other than the core books, rarely saw sales much more than about 20-40k copies on any given book. Which meant that most of the books they were publishing were breaking even, but, not much more. In a publicly traded company with share holders, that's a problem.

5e, OTOH, has the goal of 100k copies of every single publication. And, by all accounts, they are meeting or exceeding that goal. Even with modules, which is practically unheard of since the fad years. But, the break even point for those books is still probably about 20k copies. Meaning that even though gross sales might be less in 5e, they are making far, far more profit.

It goes back to the old saw that selling two times as many copies of one book is far more profitable than regular sales of three books, even though the latter has sold 50% more books in total.

Well, yeah, obviously: I agree with you, I was just curious if they have made any statements on gross revenue bring higher than ever.

 

[schnee]

Why would all of this not have applied to 3e and 4e then as well? I mean, LotR is 15 years old now, as are the Harry Potter movies. Even the explosive growth of the Marvel movies was in the 2000's.

All of these factors equally apply to 3.5 and to 4e, yet, neither of those editions lasted as well as 5e has done. Remember, by 3 plus a bit years into every WotC edition, sales had dropped to the point where a new edition was on the horizon. None of the editions was coming anywhere near close to the success of 5e.

I would argue that point. 3E was a ZILLION books, written specifically to reward game mastery, right at 2000, when geek stuff was still geek-only. And 4E did bring new players in, but not enough to counter the controversy surrounding how it was designed. It was polarizing instead of inclusive.

And, as far as the other influences, it's a big leap between 'watching a movie' and 'buying that nerdy game and inviting your close friends to sit around the table making funny voices'. It takes a while for culture to change, and IMO it took pervasive streaming, Twitch, Critical Role, and the proliferation of enviably hot and talented cosplayers in media to bring it over the edge.

I mean, the one thing I notice most In gaming stores and my group is the proliferation of *normal* people. Ones with good hygiene, fashionable clothing, long-term relationships, the whole deal. That's a big shift compared to what I grew up with.

Is the slow release schedule the only factor? No, of course not. But, it is a pretty big shift from what was done in the past and it appears to be working extremely well.

Yeah, totally agree, I wouldn't call it the only factor by any stretch.

What I would call it is one of the main reasons they didn't shoot themselves in the foot and allowed it to still grow over time. Shipping as much as 3.5 would have been a short-term money grab extorting the most rabid parts of the fan base, and created a huge barrier to entry for casual players.

In the early 2000's, when friends came over and saw the massive stack of rulebooks and splats I'd accumulated to keep up with 3E power creep, and I invited them to try it, they'd look at me with a sad 'bless your heart' expression on their face. Now, it's *one* relatively slim book. That's a much, much easier sell.

Then again, to be fair, this release schedule does suit me very, very well. I'm not a book collector anymore. Haven't been for many years. I didn't buy about 99% of the material for 3e, 3.5 and 4e. I bought maybe one book per year. Maybe.

So, really, this is tailored specifically for me, which makes me pretty darn happy. I can understand why those who want more books might be a bit peeved though. In any case, it's very hard to argue with success.

It is kind of a 'back to form' for us old 1E players. I remember having the PHB, and a few lead figures I'd painted for my characters, and that was *it*, for the longest time. When I started to DM I got the other two books and 2-3 modules, but you know how slim those were back in the day. The one dude I know who had bought other stuff - Deities and Demigods, Fiend Folio, Rogues Gallery, official character sheets, etc. - was pretty hard-core.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I think it is very good for us that instead of dyingd our hobby is not only back but growing. Wizards if the coast showed good buisiness sense regaining trust that they actually do care about the people they sell things to. Gaining trust is as important as doing it.

 

[DEFCON 1]

In the end, the arguing doesn't matter. Players are getting options at the speed they are getting them, and no complaints here for faster release are going to change that.

Hell, there were metric tons more complaints about the release schedule two years ago before WotC saw that their decisions were actually working, and they didn't change. To believe they'd switch up their schedule *now* because of even fewer complaints after the most successful year ever is pure insanity.

Sent from my SM-J320V using EN World mobile app

 

[doctorbadwolf]

But, that's not how business works.

Say it takes 20000 copies sold to break even on a book. I could sell 20000 copies of an infinite number of titles and never make a dime, even though my gross sales are infinite. And, in fact, that's largely what 3e and 4e looked like. You don't make 30 dollars on a 30 dollar book. WotC probably makes about 7 bucks on that book. So, 20k copies sold is 140k dollars, which, after you pay for everything, is probably close to break even.

3e and 4e, other than the core books, rarely saw sales much more than about 20-40k copies on any given book. Which meant that most of the books they were publishing were breaking even, but, not much more. In a publicly traded company with share holders, that's a problem.

5e, OTOH, has the goal of 100k copies of every single publication. And, by all accounts, they are meeting or exceeding that goal. Even with modules, which is practically unheard of since the fad years. But, the break even point for those books is still probably about 20k copies. Meaning that even though gross sales might be less in 5e, they are making far, far more profit.

It goes back to the old saw that selling two times as many copies of one book is far more profitable than regular sales of three books, even though the latter has sold 50% more books in total.

Yep, and 3e stayed alive as long as it did by the core books doing ok throughout its run, and on game aids and stuff, while 4e had DDI subs, which were very high profit, but not enough to make up for such a fractured fan base.

Regardless, 5e is wildly outselling both.

Although, I do think wotc would make more with a new DDI, than they do from whatever DDBeyond brings them.

 

[Hussar]

Yep, and 3e stayed alive as long as it did by the core books doing ok throughout its run, and on game aids and stuff, while 4e had DDI subs, which were very high profit, but not enough to make up for such a fractured fan base.

Regardless, 5e is wildly outselling both.

Although, I do think wotc would make more with a new DDI, than they do from whatever DDBeyond brings them.

Quite probably on the DDBeyond thing. Fair enough. But, considering the complete failure of pretty much every online/electronic product TSR/WotC ever produced, I'm thinking it's going to be a LONG time before they try to do anything in house again.

It appears that they are pretty content with licensing out things like this to other companies. Learning from the past I guess.

 

[Parmandur]

Yep, and 3e stayed alive as long as it did by the core books doing ok throughout its run, and on game aids and stuff, while 4e had DDI subs, which were very high profit, but not enough to make up for such a fractured fan base.

Regardless, 5e is wildly outselling both.

Although, I do think wotc would make more with a new DDI, than they do from whatever DDBeyond brings them.

Big difference between revenue and profit: DDI may have brought in some serious dough, but servers and programers cost continuous outlay. With Beyond, WotC takes no server or development costs, and just accepts the checks. That is profit in it's purest form.