XPH: Elan Balanced?

[two]

Well, erm...

Fun few sets of comments :

1) And of course, remember the 'cost' of being an immediate action. It keeps you from performing 'swift' actions on your next turn [or any immediate actions until the end of your next turn].

2) You'd need a spellcraft check [or psicraft, as appropiate] to identify a spell as being "a debilating save"... Just something that seems to be skimmed over. And even with the RAW and Psionic/Magic are the Same, the Elan Psionic Class in question would have to take a Cross Class skill [Spellcraft], in order to be able to know "when" to apply that benefit.

With the inherit 'limits' on "Per Day usage" and "Immediate Action"-ness, I don't think that they're significantly 'better' than a dwarf. I suspect they may just be more of a Paper Psion.

At a glance, if a problem occurs, I may just plop the manifester level cap down [and let the elan suffer at low levels].

I'm also not sure if it's a big deal -- I'm still open-minded about it and want to hear others experiences playing one.

However, one of your objections (at least) is clearly not a serious objection. The "cost" of an immediate action is nothing compared to the "cost" of not using it (i.e. character death or being disabled). That's truly a non issue. Now, if you are talking about sucking up 10 HP of damage that would have taken your PC from 60 to 50 -- yes, that's something to think about.

I'm more concerned with the limiting events -- the fireball or critical hit that drops the PC from 20 to -15. In these cases (or vs. a debilitating save) a sacrafice of an immediate action always makes sense to me. I mean, death is pretty bad.

 

[Thanee]

Yeah, the cost of paying with an ability you could have used during your next turn, surely is very, very low. Especially if you are talking to avoid unconsciousness or death, which would prevent you from doing that action, and your regular action as well.

However, since elans don't get much else, I think it's probably fair (powerful, but fair). I'd only limit the hp soaking ability to manifester level in PP spent or even less (half manifester level) per round, so it doesn't grow into insane proportions.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Sarellion]

The HP ability is strong but fair. They lose a lot of abilities they could have if the player would have chosen another race.

The ability willl save the character from death. He will probably only use it if he is going to drop or an overwhelming attack is coming.

It is even good for the DM. He can be sure that at least one PC is still standing if he misjudged the staying power of his group or he wants to give a warning shot. It still depletes their resources and there are ways around it if I read the posts correctly.

I don´t see it as overpowering, I don´t want to kill my players characters. If they want insurance for this, fine, I am fine with it, too.

 

[The Souljourner]

I started out wanting to make an Elan because I liked the RP ideas they give, but then realized they're not really that great from a power perspective. The ONLY thing that makes them not simply inferior to a human is the damage prevention. And that, while neat, isn't ridiculous. You can heal 2d10 points of damage for what, like 3 power points? And you're complaining about 2 for 1? Yeah, because it's swift action, it could prevent you from going down once.... but then what? You're still 99% dead, unless you blew your wad on stopping that damage, in which case you're low on PP.

As a powergamer, I'd much rather play a human. An extra psionic talent feat is way better than +2 PP, an ability that can be duplicated with a power, and an ability that isn't as good as a low level healing power.

They're FINE at +0. And to the guy who said they're too good at +1 - you're insane.

-The Souljourner

 

[Piratecat]

They're FINE at +0. And to the guy who said they're too good at +1 - you're insane.

No personal insults, please.

 

[Zhure]

No personal insults, please.

I think he means

Spoiler

that word

in the most heartfelt, kinship, brotherly loving way humanly possible. With noogies on top.

 

[two]

I started out wanting to make an Elan because I liked the RP ideas they give, but then realized they're not really that great from a power perspective. The ONLY thing that makes them not simply inferior to a human is the damage prevention. And that, while neat, isn't ridiculous. You can heal 2d10 points of damage for what, like 3 power points? And you're complaining about 2 for 1? Yeah, because it's swift action, it could prevent you from going down once.... but then what? You're still 99% dead, unless you blew your wad on stopping that damage, in which case you're low on PP.

As a powergamer, I'd much rather play a human. An extra psionic talent feat is way better than +2 PP, an ability that can be duplicated with a power, and an ability that isn't as good as a low level healing power.

They're FINE at +0. And to the guy who said they're too good at +1 - you're insane.

-The Souljourner

I guess I fundamentally disagree. A race that allows a PC to survive otherwise life-ending damage vs. dying and being expensively returned to life (minus a level) is a powergamer's dream.

I mean -- you said it yourself. "It stops you from going down once." And even if you are 95% dead, you are 5% alive and can get the "heck outta dodge" to fight another day. Or save a buddy. Or whatever.

Think about it over 10 levels, or perhaps 15.

Elan10 has never died, although he should have twice at least but used the auto-heal ability to stop it. (or to make a otherwise blown save).

Human10 has died twice because of no racial healing ability, leaving him a human8.

Yes, the human has an extra feat and etc. but, heck, he's down 2 levels! And lots of gold, and etc. etc.

I guess I put a lot of value on defense/not dying, because the penalties for dying are, well, very severe.

I'd argue that even if the Elan20 only saved himself from dying ONCE, it's worth it. Elan20 > Human19 who died and was raise deaded.

But, that's just me, perhaps.

 

[Staffan]

Elan10 has never died, although he should have twice at least but used the auto-heal ability to stop it. (or to make a otherwise blown save).

Human10 has died twice because of no racial healing ability, leaving him a human8.

And how many times has the dwarf survived due to his extra 10 hp, as well as constant +2 to ~80% of all saves?

 

[Thanee]

What Staffan said is what I think is the balancing factor here as well.

If you would put the abilities in some sort of curve over 20 levels, you would have a constant advantage for the other races, but occasional high peaks for the elan.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Psiblade]

The ability will not save you in all cases. First, I agree with Thanee that manifestor level is the limit. Second, if a monster's hit takes you to -5, you can negate the damage. Then when his buddy hits and takes you to -10, you can do nothing about it. You only get one immediate action per round.

-Psiblade