You know...

[Silverblade The Ench]

while I disagree with some of the things in 4th ed...it does seem to begetting back to, hm, "fantasy ala Lieber and actual European myth".

I mean this in a good way, less technical, more "WTH is that, eh?" more...classic Ravenloft-ike, ya know?
Less "I need x item to get to Y plane", more "Why is it kind of dark here? Oh there's a giant...why's it's eye glowing?!"

I loved Planescape, and the Great Wheel, but I have to admit, new set up is more "organic". I hope the Devs can find a away to add in the Wheel for folk who want that outlook, heck, the Multiverse doesn't have to be the same to the same person/campaign etc, it can have many *alternates*.

maybe the new way the City of Brass is being presented will be a new Sigil? I need to go read Monsters & Worlds again, dern, is Sigil going to return?

I do think limiting devils to "humanoid" is a bad idea, as you lose out on some potential and maybe some iconic character/monsters.

Anyway, grumpy old grognard that I may be...I think 4th ed maybe a ray of sunshine (well ok, a shadowed, eerie sunshine)

 

[Dunamin]

maybe the new way the City of Brass is being presented will be a new Sigil? I need to go read Monsters & Worlds again, dern, is Sigil going to return?

I see no reason why there shouldn't be room for both, though unfortunately I think I read somewhere that CoB is replacing Sigil.

The City of Brass could be the biggest metropolis in the Elemental Chaos, while Sigil could be the biggest metropolis in the Astral Sea. Sigil has an immense abundance of awesome lore written about it (especially by virtue of being the central site of the Planescape Setting), so it would be a shame to simply drop it.

 

[Kunimatyu]

I see no reason why there shouldn't be room for both, though unfortunately I think I read somewhere that CoB is replacing Sigil.

The City of Brass could be the biggest metropolis in the Elemental Chaos, while Sigil could be the biggest metropolis in the Astral Sea. Sigil has an immense abundance of awesome lore written about it (especially by virtue of being the central site of the Planescape Setting), so it would be a shame to simply drop it.

I'd prefer to lose Sigil then create a bastardized version for 4E, and I love the 4E changes. Things are just too different -- it doesn't have a good place anymore.

 

[Dunamin]

I'd prefer to lose Sigil then create a bastardized version for 4E, and I love the 4E changes. Things are just too different -- it doesn't have a good place anymore.

As a Planescape fan I can understand that, though doesn't bastardization hold equally true for the City of Brass?

That city was noted to have strong connections to devils, but it seems less plausible now that devils are prisoners of the Nine Hells and demons roam the Elemental Chaos.

 

[A'koss]

I'd prefer to lose Sigil then create a bastardized version for 4E, and I love the 4E changes. Things are just too different -- it doesn't have a good place anymore.

The beauty of Sigil is that it is entirely self-contained, it could just as easily be floating in a nexus-(demi?)-plane all it's own. Or it might be interesting to have Sigil wander from plane to plane on a route that is tracked by Sigilian Calendar...

 

[Fallen Seraph]

I plan on having my Sigil to be a Dominion wandering the Astral Sea, its portals opening and closing as it glides through the Sea.

I may even create a new background where the reason it became self-contained and its Astral Ship ports blocked off is because of a ancient cue, etc. Now only portals gain entrance which are closely monitored by the Lady of Pain and her advisers.

 

[FourthBear]

The City of Brass could be the biggest metropolis in the Elemental Chaos, while Sigil could be the biggest metropolis in the Astral Sea. Sigil has an immense abundance of awesome lore written about it (especially by virtue of being the central site of the Planescape Setting), so it would be a shame to simply drop it.

I think you could keep Sigil pretty readily, really. If we look at Sigil as less "center of the aligned universe" and more "City of Doors", then much of it can be easily transferred. If we look at a third party supplement like Beyond Countless Doors, we can find adventures that involved travelling from plane to plane, with no needed references to the Great Wheel. In fact, I think removing the Great Wheel opens up more opportunities for planes that are defined in ways that only fit rather clumsily in the old cosmology. No need to worry about where the Plane of Flowers or the Emerald Realms of the Ancient Lions fits into the alignment or Inner Plane schemes. And most of the more interesting of the previous Realms can be transported directly into either the Astral Sea, Elemental Chaos, Feywild or any number of places.

 

[Wolfspider]

while I disagree with some of the things in 4th ed...it does seem to begetting back to, hm, "fantasy ala Lieber and actual European myth".

Getting back? When was Dungeons and Dragons ever fantasy in that mold?

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

while I disagree with some of the things in 4th ed...it does seem to begetting back to, hm, "fantasy ala Lieber and actual European myth".

I agree, and I've been working to make my own game more like this for years - so a lot of the 4E changes really mirror things I've already done - the Feywild, Shadowfell, the way the dead go to their reward/punishment - all of these are practically identical to my own home brewed world. The fluff is aligning better with my own preferences than it ever has since the early 1E days. And in the early 1E days it wasn't so much that the fluff aligned with mine but rather that there wasn't a lot of fluff getting in the way.

 

[Dunamin]

Alright, Sigil is in.