Your game sucks...

[Dykstrav]

But there's a limit to how low that goes. If you're frequently late because you just can't be bothered to plan accordingly, then we have an issue.

This. In my experience, the people that are habitually late by several hours are late because they don't really plan to be there. They really plan to relax, drink, and screw around, and gaming just happens to be what their buddies want to do during the time they intend to screw around.

 

[Oryan77]

Well, 30 minutes is kinda my limit. Less than that and I'm not too bothered. Beyond that I start to get annoyed. And possibly inebriated.

If yer sessions are only 3 hours, losing an hour would suck especially if it means you spent as much time driving there as you did gaming (or as much time prepping if you are DM & host). This situations is a special circumstance though and is a valid reason to get upset about tardiness.

I'm just thinking in general since people seem to say that in general, regardless of the situation and how long the sessions are, they'll get mad about tardiness as if it was a job.

How long are your game sessions?

I prefer to have 6+ hour sessions if I can just so we get more time to goof around. It's common for us to play about 4 hours with about 30 minutes or more goofing around. The new group I just joined starts at 6pm and ends about 10pm. It's an hour commute for me and I've been late both times. I work from home on that day and watch my son while at home. So I have to wait for my wife to get home from work (in traffic) before I can leave. There is not much wiggle room with this time. I have to leave right when my wife gets home or I'll be late.

My wife was late getting home the first session, and I got stuck in some nasty traffic the second session. I always call even if I'm going to only be 15 minutes late. If the players in the group are going to be mad at me about things that are out of my control, so be it. If they kick me out because I'm a problem, that's fine. I don't take things that serious and wouldn't kick a friend out of the game over tardiness due to life issues, but then again, I'm not exactly their friend.

I think the key difference in opinion here is whether you mostly play with friends, i.e. people you would spend time socializing with anyway, or you play with other gamers who are not in your usual social circles.

That's what it seems like to me. Not a single one of the friends that I made from playing D&D cares about tardiness. If a player is late, everyone else is pretty chill about it. We're glad to wait on him, but if he is an hour or more late, everyone is ok starting without him.

And for people to complain that you have to stop the game to recap for the late guy? I've DMed for 10 years and it never takes me longer than 5 minutes to recap for someone. That has never even crossed my mind as being a problem.

What bothers me more than tardiness is when players don't pay attention to the game and play with their tablet PCs/smartphones/whatever instead.

I'm sure we can all agree about that one. Uhg, I can't stand that cause it can be very distracting & disrupting. I have a new player in the game that seems to be doing that. I hope I'm not going to have to say something.

It's when you show up 45 minutes late, without calling, because, "Sorry, dude, Ultimate Warrior marathon." that I get annoyed.

That is common courtesy. I may not care about tardiness, but I'd appreciate a call. I always call if I'm late. Although being late over an Ultimate Warrior marathon would piss me off unless he called me beforehand about the marathon.

That is why I am constantly trying to put together groups of randoms, as you are obviously referring. It's nice that you have a group of friends who can commit time out of their busy lives to a game. My friends, however, have grown out of D&D and I happen to be the lone hold-out.

My original friends no longer play D&D or we all moved away.

All of the friends I currently have that I play D&D with were met from me putting together a group of randoms. None of them are the types that are going to jump down ones throat for being 30 minutes late (including my old friends). I even still keep in contact with 3 other guys I met the same way but had to drop from the game (they are now friends). They also aren't going to make such a big deal about tardiness.

The point is, I'm not going to blow up at a guy about some petty issue like that (in the big scheme of things), which may be why I can say that I'm gaming with friends who started out as "randoms".

I'm sure you may have thought of it already, but I wanted to explicitly express it.

I can understand when it is people you interact with as much outside the game as you do at the game. It still isn't a big enough deal for me to make an issue out of it though. "Time" is just not something I care about as long as I get some time to play. I just can't get mad at someone for taking away 30 minutes of my D&D game. If I'm stuck sitting alone, waiting for everyone, then ok, it would suck. But if I can use that time to get other things taken care of, or to talk with my friends that are there, I don't care about losing a bit of game time. The friends I game with have the same opinion so I guess it works for us. And if someone new came along that did make an issue out of it, then I won't shed a tear if they left the group.

 

[JamesonCourage]

It still isn't a big enough deal for me to make an issue out of it though.

[SNIP to conserve space]

That's fine, and it sounds like a really relaxed and chill group. That's awesome, and as far as I can tell, an uncommon thing. I consider my group pretty chill overall, too, and we're definitely pretty relaxed, and no ones ruins the group for anyone else.

I guess I'm just curious why it's surprising to you that tardiness bugs people. I've always told people that real life > game, but on stuff that they have control over, it's just a lack of consideration that bugs me.

We schedule our games once per week, and we play from 4:30pm to 2am. Hugely long sessions, as far as I can tell from these boards (though years ago we used to play so much longer, and so much more often). One of my roommates gets off work between 2pm and 6pm on game day -I don't mind if he's late, nor if he comes home and showers or whatever before jumping in. Another player (the adopted little brother of mine) sometimes shows up two hours late because game day is his only day off, and he wants to spend time with his wife. It grates on me because he used to be the ride for the two newer players, but I let it go, because real life > game.

What bugs me is the stuff that can be helped, or is unimportant. Getting food ten minutes before game. Showing up late because you needed to shower still when your ride arrived. Leaving to drive to town to pick two guys up and plan on stopping to get food, even when there's not enough time for all of that. Not texting me back when I ask how long the wait will be because you know it'll only be 30 minutes, but leaving me with no idea if I should wait or start without you. A huge one is getting to my place on time to play game, but chilling on Facebook, GitP (to read OotS), playing on your phone, etc., even after I've asked if everyone is ready because we're all here.

I don't mind starting a few minutes late. I don't mind working around schedules. I'm slightly annoyed when people stop everyone else from playing the game we want to play because of simple and avoidable conditions. One of my roommates works grave and is the ride for at least one other player who lives 30 minutes (round trip) away. Since we aim for 4:30, he usually gets up at 2:30 to get up, wake up, get ready, pick up our friend (who's going to be playing), stop to get food, eat, etc. If we needed to push things back until 6 this week, I'm sure he'd appreciate the hour and a half of sleep, and I'm sure the guy getting picked up wouldn't mind spending that time with his girlfriend.

The important stuff? Yeah, no problem working around that. It's the inconsiderate stuff that bugs me. We see each other a lot. We don't need the extra time to socialize. You like that about your group, and that's honestly awesome. Finding a group that meshes well with your playstyle is hard to do sometimes, and I'm glad you have one. I'm just not sure why it's surprising that not all groups are in your position. Or, if that's not the case, why it's surprising that some people are annoyed by tardiness (since they don't have the same reasons to be okay with it that you do).

I'm just still talking out of curiosity and for communication. I'm not trying to debate or anything. As always, play what you like

 

[Kzach]

My original friends no longer play D&D or we all moved away.

All of the friends I currently have that I play D&D with were met from me putting together a group of randoms. None of them are the types that are going to jump down ones throat for being 30 minutes late (including my old friends). I even still keep in contact with 3 other guys I met the same way but had to drop from the game (they are now friends). They also aren't going to make such a big deal about tardiness.

Yes, yes, I get it... you and your friends are better than me.

 

[Oryan77]

What bugs me is the stuff that can be helped, or is unimportant.

I mentioned this somewhere in some of my ramblings, but if we're talking about getting annoyed by tardiness due to unimportant events (like playing xbox or something stupid) then I'm in the same boat. That's annoying.

But people seem to be saying that tardiness no matter what the reason annoys them. Their time is precious and if my (important or uncontrollable) life issues get in the way of their gaming, I need to figure out how to make sure it doesn't happen again or they won't game with me. I don't really give ultimatums to my friends, but whatever. They can try explaining to my son or to the traffic that their time is precious and they are causing them 30 minutes of game time.

Luckily I don't deal with that when I'm late, nor do my friends deal with that when they are late.

Yes, yes, I get it... you and your friends are better than me.

No man, that's not what I'm saying at all.

 

[JamesonCourage]

I mentioned this somewhere in some of my ramblings, but if we're talking about getting annoyed by tardiness due to unimportant events (like playing xbox or something stupid) then I'm in the same boat. That's annoying.

But people seem to be saying that tardiness no matter what the reason annoys them. Their time is precious and if my (important or uncontrollable) life issues get in the way of their gaming, I need to figure out how to make sure it doesn't happen again or they won't game with me. I don't really give ultimatums to my friends, but whatever. They can try explaining to my son or to the traffic that their time is precious and they are causing them 30 minutes of game time.

Luckily I don't deal with that when I'm late, nor do my friends deal with that when they are late.

I could understand this if some was sporadically late. If they showed up 30 minutes late every session, people would most likely settle into a "start, stop at 30 minutes for a brief recap, and continue" that would minimize lost time. If, however, it's 30 minutes one week, not late the next, 15 minutes late the next, then 20 minutes late, then not late, then 45, etc., I can see the frustration building, even if it's not under the player's control.

In situations like this, I'd push to move back our start time by an hour, rather than deal with this. I'd rather lose an hour of play than have to adjust on a weekly basis to a single player. Then again, I'm dealing with 9-10 hour long sessions on a weekly basis. As far as I can tell from these boards, the average tends to be around 4 hours. Getting it cut down to 3 hours is a big chunk for people, and they may not want to do that. If that means cutting a player loose because he didn't fit the schedule, it's not something I can blame them for.

In your case, you can catch up on life, chit chat with people that you don't see other than on game day, etc. For us, it's people we see regularly. We'd rather get other things done before game time, like sleeping in (if one of us worked Grave the night before), grabbing food, running an errand or two, spend some time with a wife or girlfriend, write (I write recreationally), etc.

To that end, if it's sporadic, it's a scheduling conflict that may not be able to be resolved without a group experiencing a lot of disruption towards time allocated to playing a game (there's plenty of other time to socialize for many other groups). If someone can't make it, it's unfortunate, but it happens.

Now, it's cool that you don't have to worry about it, and have a chill group, and have something special to do while waiting (catching up with friends you don't see on other days). Other groups are merely experiencing a player that has a scheduling conflict with the rest of the players/GM. I'm not sure why it's surprising that they've embraced a solution that cuts the problem off at the source. I'd work to move game day or time, but if a certain time and day is the best time for a 4 hour game, and you don't want to cut it down to a 3 hour game, and one player is disruptive (even if events are out of his control), I understand getting rid of the thing that's disrupting your game.

To that end, your group sounds very chill in a meta sense. I might be really, really mistaken here, bu you seem like a beer and pretzels group. Your group may not feel like the game would be interrupted by someone showing up late, but mine certainly is. People get distracted; someone starts filling the late guy in on what's happened, someone else gets up to get a snack or drink, someone else goes out for a quick cigarette, etc. If the party is currently engaged in nearly any scene (talking to an NPC, combat, exploring, etc.), I don't want the immersion interrupted on a weekly basis if I can help it. (Other times it doesn't matter as much, such as when the party is equipping or shopping, planning something without NPCs, etc.)

At any rate, like I've said in other threads (and this one), I think it's a social contract issue. My group values immersion, reliability, and game time (obviously yours does too, I'm not excluding that). To this end, the disruption caused in a long term situation; it might also be fine with us. Like I've said, I worked around a player (and good friend of mine) showing up two or so hours late each week (when he was a ride for two other players) because game day was his only day off, and he wanted to spend some time with his wife. I understand, real life > game.

However, at the end of the day, for individual groups, a scheduling conflict can be a real issue. If they want to resolve it by satisfying the majority of players/GM, I can't fault them.

Just my thoughts on the subject. Thanks for the civil discussion. I do get where you're coming from. I guess it's just easy for me to see why groups would tolerate it or not. As always, play what you like

 

[S'mon]

They can try explaining to my son or to the traffic that their time is precious and they are causing them 30 minutes of game time.

I had a game scheduled for 6.15pm in town yesterday, my wife had promised to be home before 5pm to swap out child-care duties. I phoned her at 5pm and she was just leaving the meeting, ETA 6pm... so I arranged to bring our son Bill in to town, we'd meet at the pub and I'd hand him over. It was a major inconvenience for me but it meant I got to the venue in time (6pm), and while for some reason she wasn't there yet, she did turn up around 6.15pm for me to hand him over. I was slightly annoyed only 2/6 players were there by 6.15pm, although a third Kerranin was still finishing up at another table, so fair enough there, and Neonchameleon had warned me he'd likely be late due to house move. 3 more filtered in late, a 6th did not show at all despite assurances. We started late and the game over-ran by 30 minutes, which meant leaving rather late, but I got home safely, and wife & child were fast asleep. I didn't feel guilty about finishing late this time after the inconvenience my wife had put me through earlier, but normally she'd be cross if I got back late and I'd feel bad about it.

 

[S'mon]

Like I've said, I worked around a player (and good friend of mine) showing up two or so hours late each week (when he was a ride for two other players) because game day was his only day off, and he wanted to spend some time with his wife. I understand, real life > game.

I used to have a player who'd often turn up 2 hours late for a 5-hour Sunday game due to spousal demands. It used to drive me nuts AIR. I wish I was better at telling people to come back when/if they get more free time. As a player I like it that my Savage Worlds GM usually starts promptly (within 10 minutes of scheduled start time) and latecomers can join in when they turn up.

 

[Gilladian]

In my game (which I DM and host) we only play for 3 hours at a time. We've had a problem recently with two of the players (father and son) having to leave early every other week. The father finally explained it and admitted it wasn't going to stop happening. So we moved the game start time up by half an hour, so even if they have to leave 20 or 30 minutes early, we can still play a full session. And on the weeks they can stay til the "official" end time, we get an extra half hour of play.

My players are rarely late, and I start on time as much as possible; we socialize, yes, but we try not to eat up our game time doing it.

My feeling is this: I make the commitment to provide a comfortable, reliable game and venue, in my own home. If you can't be bothered to show up more or less on time (15 minutes either way), then you are being rude to everyone else, and you should just admit it and go away. Life crises are different, and traffic when you have a tight schedule is different; those are not in your control, and if you were a gamer friend, we'd work around them.

I played in a shop game for several years, and it started at 6:00 on Saturday nights. I worked until six every second or third Saturday. So I was late on those nights. When I wasn't DMing, they started without me. When I was, they had to wait. I minimized the delay by making my hubby meet me in the parking lot each week with my supper in hand. It worked out... because they were my friends and they knew I wasn't deliberately messing with game time.

I think that's the key. Rudeness like not bothering to inform friends you're going to be late is bad at any level. And every group will work out their acceptable limits of lateness or other issues.

 

[Hussar]

/snip

So, do you join groups and leave them on a the drop of a dime?

I sure as Hell do. Given that it's random groups of people I've never met before, if I sense or experience conflict, my first reaction is generally to get the heck out of Dodge. Now, depending on the group, I'll also tolerate a fair bit of crap, but only if I think it's worth it. But if your game sucks? *POOF* I'm gone.
/snip

Kzach, just a question. When you say *POOF*, does that mean you take the thirty seconds to text the GM to say you won't be back next week or do you just vanish into the dark?

Because if it's the latter, I hate that with the strength of a thousand suns. When I first started playing online, I used to see this sort of thing all the time and it drives me absolutely batty. I just want to stab that person in the eye through the monitor. It's so freaking inconsiderate. Hrm, spend the time making the character, showing the player the ropes and he/she plays a session.

Doesn't like it.

Fair enough. No skin off my nose. But, FFS TELL ME that you're not coming back instead of letting us sit around for twenty minutes or half an hour waiting the next week.

And then Captain Wingnut shows up two weeks later, expecting to keep gaming, despite not answering a single email or posting to the message boards that my online groups always have.



Sorry, had to get that off my chest.

But people seem to be saying that tardiness no matter what the reason annoys them. Their time is precious and if my (important or uncontrollable) life issues get in the way of their gaming, I need to figure out how to make sure it doesn't happen again or they won't game with me. I don't really give ultimatums to my friends, but whatever. They can try explaining to my son or to the traffic that their time is precious and they are causing them 30 minutes of game time.

You are having issues and are late to the session? Fair enough. Then again, how hard is it to pull out your cell phone and take those ten seconds to text, "Hey, gotta problem, gonna be 30 mins late, Sry"? I mean, instead of expecting everyone else to sit around waiting for you, why not be a bit pro-active and let people know?

Eight years I've been gaming online. I've missed one session without giving prior notice. Every other time, I've taken the common courtesy route and dropped a line to someone to let them know what's going on.

It's not exactly difficult.