D&D (2024) Youre All Wrong. Its Not A Martial vs Caster Situation

[Mort]

After a claim that casters get to rest after every encounter it's hard to take that anecdotal take seriously.

I usually run my own campaign, but lately I've run both the Spelljammer adventure and the Planescape adventure.

In both, the great majority of the time, the group gets to long rest after 1 sometimes 2 encounters. This greatly favors the casters because they can unleash their high level, often encounter ending spells, much more easily.

 

[Zardnaar]

Anecdotal is anecdotal, of course. But going through my campaign notes for the past few years (both as DM and player since early 2018), our parties have long-rested about 40% of the time after one encounter; bumping up to 2 encounters pushes that to just over 70%.

This feels like one of those classic "different tables talking past each other" scenarios. It's rare for our tables to run large site-based exploration scenarios (the classic "dungeon"), we typically do more travel-based and urban games, where taking frequent rests is much easier.

I don't think thats typical but in that scenario yeah they would be.

 

[TwoSix]

I don't think thats typical but in that scenario yeah they would be.

I mean, I can't really speak as to what "typical" is, and I wouldn't really want to try. I just know that site-crawls with 4,5,6+ encounters with no rest in between have been really uncommon for me to see.

Ideally, to actually be a challenge and push casters, I'd rather see short rests take 6 hours, and long rests only happen when you level. You generally don't need more than 2, 2.5 adventure days of 6-8 encounters to level.

 

[Zardnaar]

I mean, I can't really speak as to what "typical" is, and I wouldn't really want to try. I just know that site-crawls with 4,5,6+ encounters with no rest in between have been really uncommon for me to see.

Ideally, to actually be a challenge and push casters, I'd rather see short rests take 6 hours, and long rests only happen when you level. You generally don't need more than 2, 2.5 adventure days of 6-8 encounters to level.

Well 6-8 wasn't happening and it's probably more than 1-2 most of the time (outside travel).

 

[TwoSix]

Well 6-8 wasn't happening and it's probably more than 1-2 most of the time (outside travel).

Yea, there's no coherence between number of encounters per day between tables, and often even within a particular campaign. Which is why I think it's generally problematic to tie the recharge period to a narrative function like a 24 hour day.

Tying the recharge to an absolute metagame mechanic can also raise people's hackles (like the recharge per 4 encounters in 13th Age), which is why I generally favor tying long rest to a particularly long period of downtime. At least a week or two in-game, and must be done somewhere relatively safe.

 

[ezo]

Which is why I think it's generally problematic to tie the recharge period to a narrative function like a 24 hour day.

Was this a problem in AD&D though? I don't ever recall it being an issue, but then again I have never felt much issue (if any) with the martial vs. caster disparity.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yea, there's no coherence between number of encounters per day between tables, and often even within a particular campaign. Which is why I think it's generally problematic to tie the recharge period to a narrative function like a 24 hour day.

Tying the recharge to an absolute metagame mechanic can also raise people's hackles (like the recharge per 4 encounters in 13th Age), which is why I generally favor tying long rest to a particularly long period of downtime. At least a week or two in-game, and must be done somewhere relatively safe.

Yeah 4E big mistake. Use a spreadsheet it looks good but boring in execution.

I did modern hexcrawl drawing on 5E and Kingmaker using OSR. Without overnight Gering and all your spells back it makes an interesting contrast.

 

[TwoSix]

Was this a problem in AD&D though? I don't ever recall it being an issue, but then again I have never felt much issue (if any) with the martial vs. caster disparity.

Not to my recollection, but I didn't play a ton of AD&D, and I certainly wasn't evaluating it with anything like the critical eye I have now.

Caster supremacy really became a thing in 3e; its excesses were such that the next 2 editions worked hard to make sure the casters stayed under control. No other edition can hold a candle (or a continual flame) to the raw power of a 3e caster with some time on their hands.

 

[TheSword]

Not to my recollection, but I didn't play a ton of AD&D, and I certainly wasn't evaluating it with anything like the critical eye I have now.

Caster supremacy really became a thing in 3e; its excesses were such that the next 2 editions worked hard to make sure the casters stayed under control. No other edition can hold a candle (or a continual flame) to the raw power of a 3e caster with some time on their hands.

Yes 3 rounds of preparation would decimate almost any encounter they then fought. Save DCs went through the roof, buffs up the wazoo. I look back on it and wonder how we put up with it for 10 years.

 

[TwoSix]

Yes 3 rounds of preparation would decimate almost any encounter they then fought. Save DCs went through the roof, buffs up the wazoo. I look back on it and wonder how we put up with it for 10 years.

Honestly, because as long as you weren't playing the fighter or the rogue, 3e was pretty fun to lean into the "OP wizard" fantasy.

Until someone cast dispel magic, of course. Or god forbid Mordenkainen's disjunction.