Dragon magic question

Dpulse303 · Sep 25, 2009

Hi guys , In tonights session we had a bit of a argument about the sorcerer spell burning spray , what it boiled down to was do you need to make a hit for the dragon power to kick in , as it does not specify that the next enemy that hits you is one you nescasarely hit (or didnt) with the initial attack.
now the spell reads -

At will , arcane , fire,implement.
SA, close blast 3
target - each creature in burst
attack - cha vs ref
hit 1d8 + cha mod fire damage
dragon magic - the next enemy that hits you with a melee attack before the end of your next turn takes fire damage equal to your str mod.

so have at it.
what do you think?

abyssaldeath · Sep 25, 2009

It works exactly like it says. The next enemy that hits you takes fire damage equal to your str mod. There is no requirement that says you had to hit them with the spell first.

Mouseferatu · Sep 25, 2009

abyssaldeath said:
It works exactly like it says. The next enemy that hits you takes fire damage equal to your str mod. There is no requirement that says you had to hit them with the spell first.

This is actually not entirely accurate, I'm afraid.

It's true that that the next enemy to attack you doesn't have to be the one that you hit with the power--but you still have to hit someone on the initial attack to activate the second part of the power.

Notice that the "Dragon Magic" section is specifically indented as a subsection of the "Hit" line. If it happened automatically, it would be its own section, under an "Effect" header.

So yes, the Dragon Magic part of the power can damage someone that you didn't hit with the primary attack--but only if the primary attack hit somebody. If it missed all targets, the Dragon Magic part doesn't kick in.

abyssaldeath · Sep 25, 2009

Crap, I miss read what he was asking. Poopies.

Dpulse303 · Sep 25, 2009

Mouseferatu said:
So yes, the Dragon Magic part of the power can damage someone that you didn't hit with the primary attack--but only if the primary attack hit somebody. If it missed all targets, the Dragon Magic part doesn't kick in.

this is how we ruled it in the end .
This raises another question though - when using a close blast spell like this , its an area so the spell still covers the area regardless of whether you hit someone or not? and is not the dragon power part of it some kind of lingering effect of one casting the spell? ie the area/yourself is wreathed in flames?

Klaus · Sep 25, 2009

Dpulse303 said:
this is how we ruled it in the end .
This raises another question though - when using a close blast spell like this , its an area so the spell still covers the area regardless of whether you hit someone or not? and is not the dragon power part of it some kind of lingering effect of one casting the spell? ie the area/yourself is wreathed in flames?

You can describe it however you want: it can be an arc of flames, it can be tiny fiery dragons biting away at opponents, it can be a boiling of the blood in each attacker, etc.

Mouseferatu · Sep 25, 2009

Dpulse303 said:
This raises another question though - when using a close blast spell like this , its an area so the spell still covers the area regardless of whether you hit someone or not? and is not the dragon power part of it some kind of lingering effect of one casting the spell? ie the area/yourself is wreathed in flames?

As Klaus said, you can describe it however you like.

But mechanically, anything under the "Hit" line happens only on a successful hit, regardless of how it's described.

Dpulse303 · Sep 25, 2009

Klaus said:
You can describe it however you want: it can be an arc of flames, it can be tiny fiery dragons biting away at opponents, it can be a boiling of the blood in each attacker, etc.

I do like description , but it has no bearing on the effect really.

Does an area effect spell that doesnt hit any targets exsist for however brief a period of time it is conjured? Technically your not targetting creatures, you hitting them is a byproduct of them being in the aoe , simplified : I target the area and for all intents and purposes I hit the area I just have no effect on a creature in the area ,the area is still there though?

I do get the fact its part of the Hit sequence but it seems a bit ambiguous as to whether the dragon magic part is triggered or not by the fact it specifies - "The next creature to hit you" , not "one of the creatures you hit"

I should resign myself to : a miss is a miss ....no effect

Mouseferatu · Sep 25, 2009

Dpulse303 said:
I should resign myself to : a miss is a miss ....no effect

Yep.

Some powers, of course, have "Miss" lines. In that case, that's the effect that happens on a miss. Some powers have "Effect" lines, and those happen regardless of anything else.

But if something's under a "Hit" line, it only happens on a hit, no matter how much the description--or even logic

--might suggest otherwise.

Diplomat123 · Sep 25, 2009

Speaking as someone who was there, a lot of the problem was that it was unclear (two - two split in the group) whether the Dragon Magic powers were an indented part of the hit block, or a separate effect line.

Lots of sorceror powers are written as

Hit Do damage and whatever
Dragon Magic xyz happens

Two people thought the Dragon Magic part only kicked off on a hit. Two thought it was an effect that happened on a hit or miss. The word effect did not appear in the text block of the relevant powers.

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