The problem is DMsGuild is very Aperture Science in approach: Throw everything at the wall and see what sticks.
D&D 5E 5e Warlord Demand Poll
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Eltab
Lord of the Hidden Layer
I voted for a dedicated Warlord class.
I could multiclass Fighter/Bard/Cleric/Thief (in whichever order) to get the combination of abilities I think of as 'what a Warlord does', but it should not take that long to get a functional build on-line.
(my impression: A Warlord can...
- give allies a push forward - a full- or half- move - once in a while
- give his friend a (non-capitalized) extra attack instead of himself attacking, more than once / fight but not at-will - "Finish him!" not Slothful Lazylord
- heal or provide THP, as well as any other healer - maybe via free 'make a Heal potion per Short Rest' instead of magic?
- debuff a single target for his friends to better pound on it instead of doing HP damage to it, at-will
- better-than-average armor (but is not The Defender) so he can 'fill in' when the real Defender goes down
- can affect allies' ranged attacks too (unless he himself is in melee)
- can buff a friend but it wears off before the fight ends
)
I could multiclass Fighter/Bard/Cleric/Thief (in whichever order) to get the combination of abilities I think of as 'what a Warlord does', but it should not take that long to get a functional build on-line.
(my impression: A Warlord can...
- give allies a push forward - a full- or half- move - once in a while
- give his friend a (non-capitalized) extra attack instead of himself attacking, more than once / fight but not at-will - "Finish him!" not Slothful Lazylord
- heal or provide THP, as well as any other healer - maybe via free 'make a Heal potion per Short Rest' instead of magic?
- debuff a single target for his friends to better pound on it instead of doing HP damage to it, at-will
- better-than-average armor (but is not The Defender) so he can 'fill in' when the real Defender goes down
- can affect allies' ranged attacks too (unless he himself is in melee)
- can buff a friend but it wears off before the fight ends
)
Aldarc
Legend
Until we kinda did with the Lore Mastery Tradition.
For every WotC implementation of the above, multiply that by at least tenfold when it comes to sorting through the DMsGuild materials in search of the gold nuggets. Presumably 5E has more successes than failures in this regard or otherwise 5E would not be as popular as it seems to be. So WotC must have some class design talent.
Mercule
Adventurer
I don't remember the specific poll to which you refer, but I'm assuming it had all the classes listed and asked which was the favorite. With 11 classes (AFB, best recollection), an even split would be a bit under 10% so 15% is actually pretty darn good.That said, let's look at WotC's polls. 15% won top place (the Wizard), 15%. By your logic next to no-one's interested in playing a wizard either. But it got first place? Ah, that must just mean that nobody wants to play DnD in general, right?
Regardless, it's a very different poll. If each class got a poll asking whether it should be in the game, I'd expect even the weakest entrant to get well above 15%.
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Jester David
Hero
Fair enough. Be sceptical.
However, that same sentiment would apply to any class, and not just warlords. It will limit sales and reduce across the board, and so all 3PP classes are on an equal footing in terms of who will purchase them. And yet, the various warlord classes (and subclasses) see fewer sales than the swordmage class. And that's despite both being updates of 4e classes, so the fact the market is former 4e players is also apprently not a factor.
I doubt that "warlord fans" are so very different from the norm of D&D fans that they'd be less likely to buy 3rd Party material.
Really, that concern is more applicable for classes being wholly generated for the Guild rather than based on mechanics seen in a previous edition. And yet brand new classes without the legacy of 4e are doing just as well if not significantly better than the warlord classes.
There's a fair amount of deviance in quality in Unearthed Arcana as well. Heck, there was tremendous variability in the quality of books from WotC during 4e and 3e. But that didn't mean the entire RPG line didn't matter and wasn't worth reading.There's too much of a wild deviance in quality on DMsGuild for me to wade through and filter the above average quality content. It's unfortunate. I like the idea of DMsGuild, but its execution has produced a tremendous amount of crud.
To say nothing of TSR... oh man did D&D have some stinkers of products.
If you're unwilling to "wade through and filter the above average quality content" (or make it yourself) then that's totally fine. You do what you need to do. But you also waive the right to complain that content you want isn't available.
Given we have the valour bard and the battle master and the purple dragon knight (plus several feats) it seems unlikely WotC will devote one of their rare Unearthed Arcanas to a topic they've covered that many times before. Not when they can instead focus on something they haven't given any attention to.
Why make a new class that's a variation on theme that's already in the game when they can do something entirely new that isn't supported?
Yes, a few people don't like the current options. *Shrug* You're never, ever going to make everyone happy. Every single class has people that hate it. They could make a dozen different versions of the warlord and someone would still say "but... it doesn't do X and that was my favourite bit!"
Classes take a tremendous amount of work and are significantly harder to design and balance than a new subclass. (They've been working on the Ranger since September 2015.) Each time they've done a new class it's taken two UAs to really nail down. And normally we only get one a month. (I expect we're going to return to that rate shortly and see a return of Sage Advice.)
( Plus, UA is really concept testing and not real new mechanics. It's where they throw out their craziest ideas to get mass feedback. If they do a warlord in that, it would likely be very experimental and different to see how people feel about certain concepts in the class. And it would likely not resemble the 4e version much on purpose, to see how people feel about that. I don't see a warlord in UA being very well received by warlord fans at all... )
Jester David
Hero
I bet you also hate Netflix. After all, 90% of that content is terrible as well. And Odin help you if the kid or spouse watches anything on your profile.
And book stores. Just wall after wall of stuff I have no interest in. But not as bad as Amazon. So many useless things.
Alexemplar
First Post
I agree. I was just using your post as a springboard from which I could just start spitballing other ideas.
And when I compared the Barbarian rage to the Cleric Channel Divinity, I wasn't implying one should copy it exactly in frequency. Simply that Clerics, because they only get one use before 6th level, tend to be more judicious in its use as opposed to Barbarians who can use it back to back. That's why I suggested tying it to the Fighter's Action Surge.
Aldarc
Legend
Then that's all you need to say. I have already explained that I am not offering an apology for the warlord's sales on DMsGuild nor am I am interested in discussing, rationalizing, or disputing the sale patterns of DMsGuild. Nor do I buy into your implied argument that DMsGuild sales equates to the value of the concept. It tells us about DMsGuild - which will have its own unique market - but not the market as a whole. As I said at the outset, I am only offering an explanation for my own DMsGuild habits and preferences. I would prefer to see the Warlord in UA because that generates more discussion and feedback than any content ever produced on DMsGuild.
I'm sure it has not escaped your notice, but DMsGuild is not Netflix. I certainly have my problems with Netflix, but they are unique to Netflix, rooted in its services and model. I subscribe to Netflix. Through my subscription I get viewing access to everything they offer (at least their more limited offerings here in Europe). I'm not paying for individual access to each item. If I don't like what I see, then I switch to another show/film or just stop watching. People aren't competing for sales of each item. Nor are people judging the value of each item in terms of product sales. Which would certainly make all of Netflix's Adam Sandler programming the platinum sellers as opposed to any sense of their actual quality. Some of this content I have seen before, so I know what I am getting. The television and film media that form Netflix's services are far more accessible than the niche hobby that D&D represents, so there will be more people discussing or recommending things from it.
Edit: Out of curiosity, I have looked on D&D Next and D&D Reddit. Even a casual search there reveals a number of homebrewed warlords. Over against the frequent claim that warlord advocates can't agree what they want, I found an unsurprising amount of conceptual and mechanical overlap in these 5e warlords. That overlap seems to suggest that warlord fans perhaps do know what they want from the warlord. If only they had the opportunity to discuss that more frequently in peace without being constantly derailed into defending its right to exist in 5e.
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Jester David
Hero
There's usually overlap, but they're seldom identical.
I'd also go so far as to say people designing the actual class are going to be more willing to compromise. Since they have to actually pick and choose abilities. Posters not designing the class can be more speculative and thus have higher expectations which might vary more in scope. Just the act of codification - let alone balancing - will streamline and focus the design.
If the myriad warlord threads here were all "PEACH my warlord" or "review this homebrew" there'd be negligible dissent. A few rare posters, which would stand out more due to their negative posts that lack actual reviews.
When someone posts a "how do you build a warlord?" thread I reply with "here's how" and go into the design.
Instead, the posts here are demands for a warlord. They're not reviews or discussion on making a warlord and instead requests for an official warlord. You can't respond to a demand or request with a review or evsluation. You can only respond by either agreeing or disagreeing.
When someone posts a thread saying "here's why we need a warlord in UA" I reply with "disagree, and here's why". When someone posts a "warlord, yes or no?" poll, I'm going to vote and explain why.
(Although, I remember for a long time even UA was unacceptable - as it wasn't AL legal - and the *only* acceptable place for a warlord was a printed book.)
You can really see this different tone on Reddit and the UA subreddit. There's more homebrew, tabletop stories, and art with fewer demands.
Because the threads aren't being presented as discussions or debates, there's just fewer arguments.
So it's not derailing. It's participating in the discussion.
But would they get any participation? Less than three people people have posted in my thred to that vein, not including myself.
Homebrew, unless it's a popular topic, tends to recieve little love.
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