D&D 5E Polymorph is a bad de-buff spell

GreatLemur · Feb 27, 2019

On one hand, this is fundamentally a philosophical disagreement about the validity of director-stance (as opposed to actor-stance) gameplay in D&D.

On the other hand, wow, seeing somebody so desperate to die on the hill of bad faith play and weaselly justifications is like watching a toad hop across a battlefield to boil in a hag's cauldron.

Salthorae · Feb 27, 2019

Satyrn said:
That looks like evidence against your point.

It suggests an Eberron fighter would be familiar with the concept of Polymorph, too, even if he's never seen it cast and never been around anyone who can cast it.

Everyone in America have heard about lawsuits.

99% of people don’t know what to do in one or how to get out/end one without expert advice and/or direct prior experience with one.

iserith · Feb 27, 2019

GreatLemur said:
On one hand, this is fundamentally a philosophical disagreement about the validity of director-stance (as opposed to actor-stance) gameplay in D&D.

On the other hand, wow, seeing somebody so desperate to die on the hill of bad faith play and weaselly justifications is like watching a toad hop across a battlefield to boil in a hag's cauldron.

It's only "bad faith play" if there's a table rule the players have agreed to that says their motivation for taking the action must meet certain definable standards. The question here is not whether the player is violating that standard, which may or may not exist at a given table, but why some adopt this standard in the first place and, to some extent, whether the table rule is actually a good approach to achieving the goal compared to other methods.

Satyrn · Feb 27, 2019

Salthorae said:
Everyone in America have heard about lawsuits.

99% of people don’t know what to do in one or how to get out/end one without expert advice and/or direct prior experience with one.

Yeah, I'm one of those 99%. But I do know that the judge might throw out the case on a technicality, and that such technicalities include an illegal search by the police. Although admittedly I couldn't act on that knowledge.

Why shouldn't I know that Polymorph can end on a technicality, and that such technicalities include my new form being damaged? And the cool thing is that's knowledge I could act on.

iserith · Feb 27, 2019

Salthorae said:
Everyone in America have heard about lawsuits.

99% of people don’t know what to do in one or how to get out/end one without expert advice and/or direct prior experience with one.

That section you pointed out says, "Spells of 4th through 5th level are beyond the reach of most people. People are familiar with the concept of spells like teleportation or raise dead, but few people have ever seen either of these things actually performed." Which is cool because teleportation and raise dead are even higher level than polymorph and people are familiar with them!

But I'm struggling to find the section on America in the PDF. Do you mean "Aundair?"

Seramus · Feb 27, 2019

Satyrn said:
Why shouldn't I know that Polymorph can end on a technicality, and that such technicalities include my new form being damaged? And the cool thing is that's knowledge I could act on.

You might know! How about we roll Arcana to see? DC15.

Hussar · Feb 27, 2019

iserith said:
What's going on in the fiction is the only relevant thing. The fact that other people at the table want to make it about the player's motivations, secret or otherwise, is a problem they have created for themselves.

Not to me it isn't.

Hussar · Feb 27, 2019

iserith said:
Why does it matter that the player is choosing the action to "achieve a game effect?"

Does the DM have the authority in his or her role as defined by the game to tell players what their characters may try to do?

Because for the people I play with, always choosing the most advantageous action isn't fun at our table.

Hussar · Feb 27, 2019

iserith said:
I'd like to propose we look at this another way. This is not directed to any particular poster so I welcome all responses.

Let's pretend I'm a prospective player to your group. As part of whatever page-setting discussions you conduct, what exactly are you telling me about your table rules regarding what you call "metagaming?" How do you explain what you mean to me, a prospective player?

Meta gaming is fine, but, try to keep it in the realm of plausible. If in doubt, err on the side of caution. Please be respectful of everyone's play preferences, not just your own.

Doesn't seem to difficult.

Daniel Van Patten · Feb 27, 2019

Imagining what the other players are thinking is half the fun.

Seeing them make connections, assemble the clues, create theories, arrive at conclusions. Following their thought process to see how they got there? Exciting. Not having that would be like watching a black and white movie to me. Entertaining, but lacking a lot of detail and nuance that adds flavor.

But some people love black and white movies. I'm cool with that.

D&D 5E Polymorph is a bad de-buff spell

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