D&D 5E Wizards not taking Gencon seriously?

jayoungr · Aug 9, 2015

SteveC said:
Morrus' picture of the game hall this year had nothing advertising who was there, so you'd have no idea that people in that hall were playing D&D as opposed to Pathfinder or ... any other game. That doesn't manage perception very well.

Not from the interior of the hall, perhaps, but there was a massive sign over the entrance closest to the D&D tables with the red and black 5E-style "Dungeons and Dragons" title. It dominated that area of the convention center, and it was particularly noticeable when you were coming down the escalators immediately opposite it. So there was some signage, at least.

Hussar · Aug 9, 2015

aramis erak said:
Gen Con predates RPGs existing. Gen Con has always had minis gaming. Gygax started it in 1968 for minis wargames and counters-on-maps wargames. GenCon I was 1968...

So?

Jeff Carlsen · Aug 9, 2015

The gist seems to be this: D&D doesn't really need Gen Con for marketing anymore, but we expect them to be there in force anyway because it is the RPG holy land and they are the flagship brand.

Osgood · Aug 9, 2015

Umbran said:
The way to get a potential player is not by having a seminar, or a booth, both because those are just poor tools for the purpose, and because the target is unlikely to bother attending. The way to hook someone is by having them *play*. But, as I understand it, the game seats at GenCon are largely booked up well before the con begins. So, your potential players have little opportunity to pick it up spur of the moment.

Thus, the Con doesn't seem a god place to recruit anyone who wasn't already trying to get into the game.

I agree that seminars do little to entice new players, but a booth can be very effective if handled correctly.

Back when WotC had a booth, they had tables where you could try their games (that's where I played the Star Wars and D&D miniature games for the first time). If I were them, I would have several tables set up where folks could run a 30-minute adventure with pregenerated characters.

Some of tables could have miniatures and terrain to catch the eye (and cross market with the miniatures line and maybe Dwarven Forge or some such). Stagger the tables, so a game is starting even 15 minutes. Afterwards, you can hand out a schedule of events a the con so folks can try a longer adventure. If they really liked it, they can buy a starter set or PHB at the booth.

I'm pretty sure they had scheduled intro sessions in the main play area, but that wouldn't catch passers by.

Lanefan · Aug 9, 2015

Can't speak for anyone else and I've no idea if this has been typical of this year's GenConners or not but I've already told at least ten people here at home how disappointed I was with WotC's lack of presence.

jayoungr said:
Not from the interior of the hall, perhaps, but there was a massive sign over the entrance closest to the D&D tables with the red and black 5E-style "Dungeons and Dragons" title. It dominated that area of the convention center, and it was particularly noticeable when you were coming down the escalators immediately opposite it. So there was some signage, at least.

Yes, and that was the only signage they had anywhere that I could find. Meanwhile Paizo signage was everywhere, including the local pubs!

Going through the doors underneath said large D&D sign did not, however, put you straight into the D&D play area. It put you in a massive hall of which the D&D area was but a part (card and board games were the rest), and that part wasn't right by the door and sign.

Jeff Carlsen said:
The gist seems to be this: D&D doesn't really need Gen Con for marketing anymore, but we expect them to be there in force anyway because it is the RPG holy land and they are the flagship brand.

Bingo, if only to help maintain their status *as* the flagship brand.

Lan-"a flagship needs, if nothing else, a flag"-efan

MerricB · Aug 10, 2015

Osgood said:
Back when WotC had a booth, they had tables where you could try their games (that's where I played the Star Wars and D&D miniature games for the first time). If I were them, I would have several tables set up where folks could run a 30-minute adventure with pregenerated characters.

It should be noted that all the tables running DDEX03-01 Harried in Hillsfar were playing 1-hour adventures that are good introductions to the game. I don't know how they were organised, though.

I'm organising a few tables at PAX Australia this year, and we'll have some devoted to introductory games using that adventure. (I'm just working out some pregenerated characters).

Cheers!

aramis erak · Aug 10, 2015

Hussar said:
So?

So it's NEVER EVER been "all about the RPGs". It's always had a strong wargaming element. WHen D&D was at its gencon height, it still had large SFB and Car Wars tourneys.

Hussar · Aug 10, 2015

aramis erak said:
So it's NEVER EVER been "all about the RPGs". It's always had a strong wargaming element. WHen D&D was at its gencon height, it still had large SFB and Car Wars tourneys.

So you're saying that the supposedly premier DND convention has never been all about the rpg's?

My question then remains. Why bother? If DND has always taken a back seat at the con, why plunk down tens of thousands of dollars to sponsor it?

Look. 75000 to be a sponsor. Another 15-20000 dollars for hotels, food, swag, advertising. So just shy of a hundred grand to reach maybe 20000 people. At best. Every is saying that half the con goers aren't into rpg's, of those remaining, easily half already know about DND. So that leaves about 20-30000 people at best.

3-5 dollars a person for outreach? And people are surprised that WotC isn't jumping at this? There are a helluva lot better ways to reach people than that.

billd91 · Aug 10, 2015

Hussar said:
So you're saying that the supposedly premier DND convention has never been all about the rpg's?

My question then remains. Why bother? If DND has always taken a back seat at the con, why plunk down tens of thousands of dollars to sponsor it?

Look. 75000 to be a sponsor. Another 15-20000 dollars for hotels, food, swag, advertising. So just shy of a hundred grand to reach maybe 20000 people. At best. Every is saying that half the con goers aren't into rpg's, of those remaining, easily half already know about DND. So that leaves about 20-30000 people at best.

3-5 dollars a person for outreach? And people are surprised that WotC isn't jumping at this? There are a helluva lot better ways to reach people than that.

It's really not all or nothing, despite the way you're trying to spin it here. Gen Con has never been just about RPGs, though it has been probably the biggest con for RPGs and, until relatively recently, D&D. Really, it can be both the premiere RPG convention and not be just about RPGs.

Kramodlog · Aug 10, 2015

MortalPlague said:
I don't know about Gen Con, but I've been a PAX DM for three years running, and I've had a blast running tables each time. Last year, WotC had a vastly scaled-down presence. Rumor was they were pouring all the money into Gen Con for the 5th Edition launch. This year, there is no official WotC Adventurer's League play at PAX. So wherever the money is going, it's not going to PAX.

There will be 25 stations where people will be able to test Sword Coast Legends at PAX. WotC is investing money in promo at PAX, just not to promote the PnP RPG. WotC is diversifying the D&D brand. The PnP RPG is secondary now.