Anyone else tired of the miserly begrudging Rogue design of 5E?

CM said:

It seems to me if you want to be a rogue that's more focused on combat than skills, you spend most of your levels on the fighter class.

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Or at least optimizing the rogue for combat?

Helldritch said:

Both right and wrong. You can talk. But enemies will hear it too.



The kensai get to chose two weapons. These weapon become dexterity based weapons for the kensai. (XGTE)



Surprise round, being unseen etc that it everything that come with a stealthy killing attempt.



Again, advantage is assumed. Surprise round, not being seen etc... That can well happen. And the enemy could have drunk a potion of haste as well adding 46 dmg.



Do the math, it is entirely possible. Not against a barb or a heavy armor wearer. But anything on D8 is about to be toast if they don't take toughness feat and do not maximize constitution...

I am still searching for the rule that prevents verbal interaction after being attacked a first time. Could you please point it to me so that I can adjust my ruling accordingly?

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You will not find a rule listing everything you cannot do on someone else's turn. That list would be too long.

For instance, there is no rule saying you cannot take nine dinossurs out of your boot after the first attack on someone else's turn either.

What you will find during the section on combat and actions etc under other actions on your turn is...

"You can communicate however you are able, through brief utterances and gestures, as you take your turn."

I think its also repeated or referenced in the interaction chart - also during "your" turn.

If you see a rule saying you can in combat communicate during someone else's turn... By alk means show it.

But its a rather falkacious argument to try and portray the rules as written in a "list exclusions" type style.

They arent.

Of course, a gm can decide you can recite an entire sonnet between enemy swings for their games.

But for combat turn tracking, the rules seem to place it inside "your turn."

In my games, i tend to be more liberal.

I allow you to use your reaction to communicate on someone elses turn (just like a GM can have an interaction take longer). Wont help on surprise tho.

I also allow characters in combat to take an overwatch (directing traffic) action on their turn giving them free comm interactions thru the round(s) until their next turn.

Both are house rules i use to extend the ability to coordinate and communicate - each at a cost.

CapnZapp said:

The only room that's white is yours.

When you've seen GWM give a character +50 damage in actual real play, you'll pull the plug on it too, like I did.

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No, I'll just design encounters to be challenging/interesting for that caliber of damage dealing.

5ekyu said:

What you will find during the section on combat and actions etc under other actions on your turn is...

"You can communicate however you are able, through brief utterances and gestures, as you take your turn."

I think its also repeated or referenced in the interaction chart - also during "your" turn.

If you see a rule saying you can in combat communicate during someone else's turn... By alk means show it.

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We are all refering to the same rule as I see it. We only intrepret it differently.

Would a call for help count? I would certainly allow it after the first attack.

Also, you assume that the poor player lost initiative. He won it but he's on the surprise round. He can't take any action until his turn is done. He could however, use a reaction after his turn and it would be during the "non assassin''s phase whom is trying to assassinate him through a serie of attack.

A scream isn't much.

But since we are obviously talking about rule interpretation, I'll just get away from this topic.

5ekyu said:

Yeah, for all the white room rage over the 5/10 feats when i solve that equation and compare to actual play the gains are rather minimal and circumstantial. You need a good hit probability to break even, very good if your base damage is high and i often wonder after they also minmax the base damage how often the gains are seen in play.

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The only way I've seen those feats used successfully to get a large amount of consistent extra damage is with the cooperation of one or more additional party members.
At which point its no longer one character dealing that damage.

Helldritch said:

The kensai get to chose two weapons. These weapon become dexterity based weapons for the kensai. (XGTE)

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Are you sure that the two-handed sword is a legal choice for this? I didn't think they could choose weapons with the Heavy property.

Surprise round, being unseen etc that it everything that come with a stealthy killing attempt.

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I think that being in a surprise round only grants advantage if you're an assassin. You're using a melee weapon, so being unseen isn't really an option without a spell or other effect that allows you to hide in plain sight like invisibility.

I am still searching for the rule that prevents verbal interaction after being attacked a first time. Could you please point it to me so that I can adjust my ruling accordingly?

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Communicating is stated as an option that you can do on your turn.
If you're taking the attitude that you can do it unless there is an explicit rule stating that you can't, then you're going to be disappointed: 5e isn't written that way. As with all things, check with your DM first and foremost.

Helldritch said:

We are all refering to the same rule as I see it. We only intrepret it differently.

Would a call for help count? I would certainly allow it after the first attack.

Also, you assume that the poor player lost initiative. He won it but he's on the surprise round. He can't take any action until his turn is done. He could however, use a reaction after his turn and it would be during the "non assassin''s phase whom is trying to assassinate him through a serie of attack.

A scream isn't much.

But since we are obviously talking about rule interpretation, I'll just get away from this topic.

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I an not sure how there is a different interpretation of "as you take your turn."

But hey, for some dodge is a bonus action.

Why is the scream while being hacked apart important? Even if you call for help, your friends won't be able to interrupt the attack sequence...

Ancalagon said:

Why is the scream while being hacked apart important?

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It's like the cherry atop the sundae of murder. Sure, there's crunching and squelching and blood everywhere, but without the screaming, it's just not the same.

Helldritch said:

The kensai get to chose two weapons. These weapon become dexterity based weapons for the kensai. (XGTE)

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Kensai can't chose a weapon with the heavy property for their kensai weapon, GWM only works with heavy weapons for the -5/+10. Believe me, I was hoping to use kensai as a pseudo-avenger, but it doesn't work.

Tony Vargas said:

It's like the cherry atop the sundae of murder. Sure, there's crunching and squelching and blood everywhere, but without the screaming, it's just not the same.

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You know taking the Psychopath flaw is just pure powergaming, right?