The Surprise round anomally

[Azza]

We had a game last night and discovered something odd with relation to a surprise round.
Imagine you are ambushed by 2 Orcs and are surprised. One jumps out one square away, the second 4 squares.
Now here is the odd thing. The Orc 4 squares away can use his standard action to charge in at you and get a basic melee attack. But the Orc one square away cant! You can only perform one action in the surprise round and you must travel at least 2 squares and move directly to your opponent in a charge. The closer Orc cant cover the distance (hes too close!?!) and attack!

Or am I missing something?

 

[fba827]

no, you didn't really miss anything.

but, it's only odd because he's limited to one action. surprise round being limited to 1 action. and charge needing 2 squares to gain the momentum... each in itself seems reasonable.

basically, orc 1 shouldn't have jumped so close (if he had a choice) if he wanted to charge.

else,

orc 1 may have just moved closer to give flank for the charging orc.
orc 2 then charges and gains flank from orc 1

just my thoughts anyway

 

[FireLance]

In my view, the simplest fix would be to set no minimum distance for a charge, so a character could move just 1 square and attack, but he only gets the +1 bonus to attacks if he moves at least 2 squares. Needless to say, the 1 square move is not a shift and provokes opportunity attacks normally.

 

[Oompa]

Or... The orc close enough can just attack or use an power.. that the other orc can't use yet because he has to charge first to engage melee..

 

[FadedC]

Having no minimum distance for charge would have far reaching consequences beyond the surprise round, greatly weakening many control powers.

 

[FireLance]

Having no minimum distance for charge would have far reaching consequences beyond the surprise round, greatly weakening many control powers.

Weakening, I'll give you. "Greatly", I'm not so sure. Under most circumstances, an opponent exactly two squares away can simply shift and attack, or move and attack if the square between the opponent and his target is difficult terrain. All the "no minimum distance" rule does is remove the artifical (IMO) two-square-radius "zone of safety" around a character who is faced by an opponent who has no reach, no ranged attack, and is restricted to a single action on its turn.

 

[Switchback]

Was there only 1 person in the adventure?

It seems odd that the close orc would not have had at least one hero to charge at. He might not have wanted to because of opportunity attacks, but in most cases a target would seemingly be available.

 

[olivgor]

Actually, the action of "jumping out" seems to me to be the orcs actions for the surprise round. They are hidden behind some wall or boulder, and do a switch or a move to reveal themselves. End of surprise round, roll initiative…

 

[FadedC]

Weakening, I'll give you. "Greatly", I'm not so sure. Under most circumstances, an opponent exactly two squares away can simply shift and attack, or move and attack if the square between the opponent and his target is difficult terrain. All the "no minimum distance" rule does is remove the artifical (IMO) two-square-radius "zone of safety" around a character who is faced by an opponent who has no reach, no ranged attack, and is restricted to a single action on its turn.

Currently if your knock your target prone or daze him, you can shift one square away and he can not attack you in melee in any way. This is very strong, and one of the best uses of these abilties. If you change this rule, this will no longer be true. Knocking people prone in particular will become far weaker because there will be no way to stop them from charging. Certain powers would go from being strong to lame.

 

[amysrevenge]

Actually, the action of "jumping out" seems to me to be the orcs actions for the surprise round. They are hidden behind some wall or boulder, and do a switch or a move to reveal themselves. End of surprise round, roll initiative…

Which has, of course, been the difficult thing about Surprise rounds since 3E.

As an ambusher, in the surprise round you can:
a) Jump out (move action) and do nothing
b) .... I can't think of a b)